Help, I'm browning!

[Gus Chiggins]

Just wiped my second coat of LMF browning solution on. I just had some quick questions/observations while I wait for the 3rd.

1st- I did multiple wipes (top-bottom, 1 direction, not rubbing). I did this BEFORE reading about the copper issue if you rub it on multiple "coats" at once. Didnt notice any copper, is it super obvious?
2nd- 1st coating did not come out as even, or rusty as I expected. Almost looked kind of stained as opposed to rusted. After the second coat, barrel looked DARK. Like, I'm really hoping it doesn't keep darkening as I try to even out the finish with multiple coats.
3rd- I'm using a small steam-filled shower room to hand it, using an old pair of jeans to card, although I didnt seem to take a whole lot off the first wipe. Does this setup & method sound legit?

 

[Ames]

Does this setup & method sound legit?

Yes. And I have never gotten a lot off in the first carding. 3rd or 4th and it can get serious.
Don't skimp on the humidity, either. Not crazy, just don't skimp.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Not sure what constitutes skimping, but I filled the room with steam and shut the door the first time. This coat, I filled the tub up with scalding water and just the door. It feels hot & humid in there, but obviously my feelings are not calibrated.. it also looks like I missed a sliver down the side the second time. Is this process hard to get an even look or does it just kind of work itself out after a few coats and some brisk carding?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Gus you will save money on hot water if you put a cross piece from the shower curtain rod or the upper edge of the shower door to the opposite wall... my shower has a half-inch lip opposite the curtain..., and then hang the barrel low from that, about 12" above the water surface. Careful not to be too close to the faucet so that filling water doesn't splash droplets onto the barrel causing a rinse instead of a beading effect from the steam onto the solution covered barrel. The curtain or the door on the shower must be closed of course, and this will concentrate the vapors into a smaller area.

LD

 

[Col. Batguano]

It will work itself out. Once the piece gets to its' "destination color" it will pretty much stay there, regardless of whether you get there in 3 coats or 30. What WILL change is the depth and size of the pitting. Just avoid handling it with bare hands if you can so as to make that area browning proof. It's best of course for the purposes of the pits' size if you can get good even rusting all the way along, but nobody gets there in just one or two applications of the stuff.

I browned one barrel in January in my 2% humidity basement and after a week of no action I hung it in the shower.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I put my barrels outside under a covered archery target, it gets pretty humid in Alabama after midnight often with a heavy dew. If you leave things in the open the dew falling on the items will cause streaking.

 

[Eric Krewson]

After 5 or 6 coats everything looked like chocolate, the barrel took a month or so to quit rusting even after multiple ammonia and baking soda baths.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

I love how that stock came out! That barrel looks like it has sort of a matte finish, what did you sand the barrel to? I finished mine with 320, and it doesn't appear shiny at all at this point. LMF instructions just said to sand to at least 180 depending on the desired level of shine.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Nice work Eric

Sm

 

[Gus Chiggins]

And another thing, as far as handling; LMF explicitly states that you can handle the barrel glove free as long as it's not wet with solution, which is what I've been doing.

 

[Treestalker]

Gus, thanks for this tread, I've never tried rust browning, a friend did it on a 20ga he had, and left it too long I guess, it was pitted to hell and gone, but I was darn sure brown! I myself have always used Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown. I degrease the barrel twice and heat it up till it fries spit, then liberally apply the plum brown with a wad of degreased cotton balls. Card with 4-0 steel wool, degreased. Takes about 4 coats and it looks really dark. After oiling it just looks fine. I have done this treatment to flint locks frizzen and all no problem. Maybe I'll try rust brown, I understand it holds up better, but I've not had any problems with my method. The maple on Eric's rifle looks like aquafortis stain, which is what I like on maple, curly or plain. Regards, George.

 

[Zonie]

I'm betting that anyone who has raised kids, has a "vaporizer" somewhere in the house to combat sniffles and coughs. Their wife probably has it hidden in some secret place that only she knows about but it's there somewhere.

Filling one of these with water and leaving out the Vicks Vaporub, it will produce lots of steam without making your hot water heater work overtime and it will fill the bathroom with more than enough steam to work with the browning solution to brown a barrel. (Wipe out any old Vicks. The steam contaminated with the grease from this stuff will keep the barrel from rusting like it should.)

Now, the only trick is to find it. If you ask your wife she will probably say, "WHAT? YOU WANT WHAT? YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO FILL IT WITH ONE OF YOUR TOXIC SOLUTIONS AND RUIN IT."

That's when you can surprise her and tell her the only thing that you are going to put into it is plain water. She won't believe you but she might just tell you where it is hidden.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Update-- I have my 5th coat hanging in the shower now. I found a humidifier and gave that a shot on high, I noticed the room didnt not feel as sticky when I opened the door. And also, when I carded, I got more brown on my denim than rust, so I'm guessing it just kind of dried and didnt have enough moisture.

Another thing is, the last two (4 and 5) dont seem to have darkened at all. The only color change I've noticed is the streak(darker/lighter)spots sort of show up in different areas after different applications. In fact, to my eye, overall I would say it is a touch lighter now, looking less dyed and more rusty. Can I expect the color to get richer/darker after I wash and oil it? Or should I keep doing the applications till I get exactly the color I'm looking for?

On a side note, I got the lmf maple, and tested it in the barrel channel of my stock(birch or beech I'm guessing), and I'm not thrilled, so I'm thinking about getting the walnut and seeing what that looks like.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I sanded to 220 on the rifle above, the stock was stained with Jim Kiber's iron nitrate.

Keep putting on applications until you get what you want.

 

[Vaino]

Using a makeshift "sweat box" w/ wet, hot towels lying on the bottom and periodically being reheated, yields an even and nicely colored brown after 3 coats w/ carding w/ denim between coats. In fact, the last bbl done 2 weeks ago, only had 2 coats. LMF is always used.

I've found that if a layer of red rust isn't present {in lieu of a dark layer}, the process needs more moisture and heat.

If the browning layer becomes too thick after 4-5 coats, even ammonia won't neutralize the acid and will require a lot of neutralizing over an extended period. A fine oil soaked steel wool then might have to be used after the ammonia applications.

A few dousings w/newly bought ammonia is used on the bbl and the smaller parts are submerged in a container of ammonia for an hour. All are then rubbed down w/ motor oil soaked denim....the motor oil is alkaline to neutralize acid buildup in the crankcase of an auto.......Fred

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Using a makeshift "sweat box" w/ wet, hot towels lying on the bottom and periodically being reheated, yields an even and nicely colored brown after 3 coats w/ carding w/ denim between coats. In fact, the last bbl done 2 weeks ago, only had 2 coats. LMF is always used.

I've found that if a layer of red rust isn't present {in lieu of a dark layer}, the process needs more moisture and heat.

If the browning layer becomes too thick after 4-5 coats, even ammonia won't neutralize the acid and will require a lot of neutralizing over an extended period. A fine oil soaked steel wool then might have to be used after the ammonia applications.

A few dousings w/newly bought ammonia is used on the bbl and the smaller parts are submerged in a container of ammonia for an hour. All are then rubbed down w/ motor oil soaked denim....the motor oil is alkaline to neutralize acid buildup in the crankcase of an auto.......FredView attachment 15298

Interesting. I just put my 6th wipe on before reading this. It's in my shower now. I'm not sure if the browning is too thick, or if I would be able to tell now anyway. The barrel is finally uniform in finish after the last, except for 2 tiny (size of a pin head) spots I could see a little steel. One was where the breech plug meets the breech, the other just above that in a corner of the flash channel (?..not sure the term, the bottom of the little nubby where the nipple screws in). So, another coat was going on regardless, I guess we'll see. Maybe i wont give this the full 3 hours and get it a little early..

I dont have ammonia. The lmf instructions say BAKING SODA, which is what i have on hand. I capped that because i have read many posts by people on this site advising people to use washing soda, and for lmf at least, it is not what they instruct.

I also have 30w motor oil i planned on slathering it in as soon as i card a final time. Is the something i could swab the bore with after cleaning as well?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Be very careful about the steam and humidity. If the barrel rusts quickly and a lot between carding you will get a coarse, mat, finish that will feel textured. The photos below show examples, which the owners wanted:

However, if you want a smoother, finer finish, you need reduce humidity to slow down the rusting and shorten time intervals between carding. Below are examples:

The best carding tool is the very soft Grobet stainless steel wheel (bristles are 0.003" diameter) run at a slow speed from a lathe or drill. You can get them from Brownells.

dave

 

[Gus Chiggins]

My barrel currently looks very similar to the single trigger middle picture, it's a touch duller, but I haven't washed or oiled it yet. I might lightly polish with some 0000 steel wool after my wash. Does this sound acceptable in l'eau of the polishing wheel? If I choose that route, I wonder if polishing dry, or working a little oil in with the wool would be best..

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have limited experience having only browend two barrels but I would rub the heck out of the barrel with denim instead of steel wool. If you have the color of the above rifle I think you are where you need to be.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Update-- my barrel is sitting in my basement covered in 30w. I personally think it came out great! I want to cover a few things for others looking for info.
1- I didnt follow the instructions exactly. The 2 steps I missed(read before, not during process) were to NOT card after the first coat, and to wash with hot water after every carding, which I did not do at all.
2- There are 2 "blemishes" that arent apparent until close (1 foot < proximity) inspection. They are the two spots that didnt take the solution mentioned in previous posts. Not hardly noticeable, and actually sort of looks more like wear from use. Other than that issue it was not hard to do at all with a little care(although I didnt go to bed till 0030, and woke up at 0400 to check/card/reapply, so that wasnt fun).
3- A couple of things I haven't mentioned yet: I used Play-doh to plug the muzzle and nipple hole, and it worked out pretty well(most of what i read, and what lmf suggests is wood dowels).
4- The color came out great! It looks like a slightly darker hershey's chocolate bar. I did notice that in direct, bright sun light it has tiny variations in color uniformly throughout. Which was surprising because in normal indoor, or the ambient light in my house it looks completely monochrome. I've never seen any other browned barrels in person so I wouldn't know.
Lastly- the finish was very smooth. I did gingerly polish it with 000 steel wool and motor oil. Not sure how much it actually polished but it looks great so I'm not pushing my luck with that!