Help with gun case please?

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shortbow

45 Cal.
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I'm making a case for my new Hawken out of bear skin. I've got it cut out and tacked about every three or four inches with sinew. But the thing is 48inches long and the prospect of sewing it with saddle stitching at six or seven stitches per inch is not my idea of fun.

Any ideas on how I could sew it in an at least relatively hc way in a simpler and quicker manner?

Also, any thoughts on how I might build it so it reflects my fur trade/NDN tastes? My beading skills are nonexistent. Fringe? Paint? Other?
 
Silly me, if it were mine I'd want it done right and get down to doing it. I don't take short cuts no matter how daunting it seems. :v
 
Swampy said:
Silly me, if it were mine I'd want it done right and get down to doing it. I don't take short cuts no matter how daunting it seems. :v

well,, Swampy is true to his word, he sewed the strap for my bag ..it was 50" an 2 sides..plus inside pockets,,, an I figured he called me everyname in the book while doin it, but lookin back I doubt he regrets a second of it...
you only wanna do it once a Shortbow, take yer time,do it right,,,"I shoulda's" are terrible things....
 
Two words,
Rubber.
Cement.
I've found this stuff to be the absolute best for all weather conditions and longevity; http://www.amazon.com/BARGE-CEMENT-bonding-wood-metal/dp/B000S14D9K

Doing it as Swampy describes, as in actually doing it, is still the best bet though. It's a bugger, but the satisfation you get with the finished product is tremendous.
 
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Buffalo is heavy leather, much less if the fur is left on. The problem with decoration is finding ACCURATE information about the Indian Tribes, their clothing, jewelry, markings etc.

We are a bit better in our knowledge of "western" Tribes, ie, those located West of the Mississippi and the Missouri, after The Lewis and Clark expedition, in the early 19th century than we are about tribes located in the Eastern part of the country. What little evidence of Eastern Tribes and their Pre-European culture is known only as the result of private collections of artifacts, a few diaries, and reports of early explorers, missionaries, and settlers. The French archives have more information on the Eastern Tribes of N. America, for instance, than we find in either British, or American museums, and archives.

When I wanted to decorate my "Persona" with items common to the Kickapoo, Sauk, and Potawatomi tribes, native to Central Illinois, I researched all I could find in the books, and was frustrated. I traveled up to Chicago to visit the Museum of Natural History, only to find a display of Potawatomi "dress" with the Indians displayed wearing loincloths made from Dark Blue Fabric, with the gold Fleur-de-lis , which are the emblems and colors of the French Flag! Clearly , while this dress was Pre-British, and Pre-colonial American in its "origin", it was not pre-European.

I had heard a lecture by Professor Emeritus at the U of Illinois, who had visited Paris, France, and explored the French Archives there. She found early diaries from the first french explorers, Joliet and Marquette, indicating that the "Illini" Indians, living along the Illinois river, wore no clothes at all, and draped furs over their bodies during the cold months.

Obviously, I could not display that accurate a "portrayal" of that Indian Culture. So, instead, I opted to display A part French, part- English speaking trapper, who had explored and trapped through out Illinois, and had traveled into Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa, trading and trapping, with the Indian tribes there. Since most tribes were friendly with the French traders, ( they had the reputation- true or not-- of being more fair with the Indians in their trades, than the British were) My persona adopted the French colors for his sash, and leg straps, wears a blue toque, with a "French Cross" sewn to the hat to indicate his loyalty, and the fact that he is a Christian.

My point is that you have to be very careful in your research before you decide on decorations on your equipment, or clothing. Thankfully, you live in Vancouver, and there is a lot of information about the West Coast Tribes. In fact, the time I was at the Chicago Museum, they had a HUGE display on the native tribes loving along the coast of British Columbia, and on up into the handle of Alaska.

Now, you didn't indicate ith which Tribe you wanted to be associated, So that doesn't allow us to help you much. My futher study showed that the tribes in the Midwest like the multicolor beads, so I decorated a necklace with such a piece, and then hung a smaller version from a piece of sinew from the trigger guard of my rifle. Jewelry made from bones, teeth( Tusks), and shells were common to all the tribes, so you have a wide choice of options available to you.

Regarding fringe, Its my believe that fringe was used, on clothing and gear to give a ready source of strong cordage when the need was immediate, and to help camouflage the actor and his gear when standing or walking in woods or tall grass. The long fringe seen on shirts, and sheathes helped to conceal movement by moving with the body, or, when standing, moving with the wind in the same direction and at the same speed as grasses moved with the wind.

If you have scraps of buffalo hide left, and can make fringe from it, you can tie or sew the fringe to the rifle case. It does not have to, and probably should not, run the full length of the case.

I have seen long lengths of leather straps, folded in half, to create a loop. Then the loop is run through slits in both halves of the gun case seams, and the end then fed through the loop. Then the two ends are pulled through to tighten the loop to the case, to hold the seams together. Sometimes, an ornament may be attached to the LOOP to indicate clan affiliation or tribal affiliation.

The ornate cases and clothing were used and worn for ceremonial occasions( Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes) and rarely worn when hunting, when planer work clothing was worn. The ornate clothing might be worn in battle, but on small raids, such clothing was usually left back at camp.

IN battles, warriors expected to be killed, and wanted to be dressed in their finest when they met their Maker.

On raids, the purpose was to take horses, food, & weapons)kill if you could do so without risk of being killed, count coup on your enemy to make your own magic gain power from them, and to escape unharmed. Even in battles, between tribes, it was often more NOBEL to count coup- touch your enemy without him being able to injury you or kill you in return- in front of witnesses, to show your own bravery, and skill, while humiliating your enemy-- than to kill an enemy.

None of these comments I have made are intended to apply universally to all tribes. Each tribe had its own beliefs, and ways of dealing with neighbors- friends or enemies. Ornamentation was used for both Religious purposes, and to identify the particular Indian with individual, clan, and tribal indicators.

This fact- the great diversity -- works in favor of the historic re-enactor, or portrayer of these historic times, and people, both white settlers, and the Indians they met.

Do your research carefully. Document anything and everything you can, and then go with it. Someone may disagree with your choices, but reviewing their information, and comparing it to your own research is how you learn. :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
 
Oops! My bad. Sorry. Thanks for noting my error. :thumbsup:

I now wonder whether its a black, brown, or some other shade of colored fur. I have felt and hefted a number of black bear hides, and they all are heavy- fur on or not. It would not be my first choice for a rifle scabbard. Mine is made from Elkskin, and has stood up to use for more than 30 years, now. It has fringe on the forward half of the sheath.
 
Maybe just hang some hanks of horsetail hair with tin cones from the end of it?
But I'm not one of those pc guys.
 
My father used hand drill to do the holes and then just rawhide lacing of some sort. Just measure the holes distances inside.
 
Here's some pics of a few originals made of leather - the fur companies also supplied cases made of wool blanketing:

Comanche - per George Catlin dated 1834: minimal beadwork and decoration were the norm for this period - the heavily beaded cases so often seen in collections are all later - post 1870's rez period. This could be beadwork, but the Comanche also used paint work quite a bit.
catlin-dodge-comanches-1834.jpg


Circa mid-1840's - 1850's: upper Missouri area - prior to the 1850's there is little to no differentiation between tribal styles on the Plains or in the mountains - plus certain tribes such as the Crow often traded clothing, beadwork, etc to other tribes - even their enemies. The Crow, Cheyenne, and Kiowa are about the earliest identifiable tribal work and they don’t appear untilt he late 1840’s and early 1850’s. Even then there are a lot of commonalities until later. For some early examples of pre-1840 Plains geometric beadwork see Bodmer's drawings and some of the work in the Peabody Museum featured in the book Arts of Diplomacy.
pg-307-rifle-case.jpg



Kit Carson’s case from the 1860’s, but stylisitcally could be back dated to the 1840’s ”“ probably Cheyenne beadwork , but could be Ute or Arapaho
carson-spencer.jpg


As for stitching ”“ the Indians seldom if ever used the saddle stitch ”“ the whipstitch was the most common stitch used for construction. The runnning stitch was used for some construction but also as a decorative element.

The second case above s turned inside out and most probably used the whipstitch.
The Carson case appear sto have been left right side out and whipstitched.
Some case also used the running stitch or a lace in the running stitch style where the fringe was incoporated and the whipstitched te rest of the way.
Here’s a later case (1870’s-80’s) made in that manner.
Nez-Perce-gun-case-ex-Kansas-City-Museum.jpg


IMO - for the pre-1840 era the simpler the better - a bit of fringe (although not real long) and a bit of simple beadwork, quillwork or some painted symbols would be about right dependent on area and not so much tribe.
The works of AJ Miller from his 1837 trip as well as prints by Paul Kane 1840's, Rindisbacher 1820's, and Rudolph Kurz 1851-52 all include some gun cases.

Hope that helps......
 
shortbow said:
But the thing is 48inches long and the prospect of sewing it with saddle stitching at six or seven stitches per inch is not my idea of fun.

I agree with Swampy- Just pick your time and do it. I've sewn a couple of cases a lot longer than that from elk, reverse and saddle stitched. It took a long evening, but with such soft leather it was really pretty easy. I incorporated fringe in both, using it as a "welt" for half the cases toward the muzzle and did some simle bead work. Not up to the standard of LaBonte's work, but who is? :grin:

And thanks again to LaBonte for the "deep pockets" of your reference material. It's really something to see and greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks very much all of you.

Wick and Chuck, that's great advice about the whip stitch, both easier and more authentic. A win/win. I'll go with that for sure. It also makes more sense to me given that at those early dates they were likely still using sinew which in my experience is a b--- to use with saddle stitching. I bet even after exposure to textile thread they would have kept using that method for a long time.

And like RB said, those pictures and cultural insights from Chuck are really appreciated. I've had my nose in research of the Plains folks for fifty years and I still have so much to learn. The trouble I've found with most academic historians, anthros and ethnologists is that the details are of only passing interest.
 
It may be a far reach for you, but there are many fine examples of later beadwork and painting on hides at the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody, Wyoming, there's one in Santa Fe, whose name I can't remember, and the Mountain Man Museum in Pinedale, Wyo. Like Mr. LaBonte says, though, I think these are all later. They're still very beautiful to look at.
 
I'd like to get to all those places, Mike, plus a bunch more on my list. Someday I hope to take a trip and visit all the historic and archaeological sites I've missed. Probably take me a good six months to hit them all.
 
Labonte,In the process of making a leather gun case.What is the best paint type to use for painting on leather.No good at beading so I will paint a few symbols on the case,along with a little fringe.Going for 1820-1840 look.Thanks for all the timely advise.Prairie Of The Dog.
 
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