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help with pattern

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Robert Egler

50 Cal.
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I've just switched out the original 50 calibre barrel for my Traditions Hawken with a Green Mountain 54 cal/28 gauge smoothbore barrel. I sighted it in at 25 yards with a patched roundball to start. Pretty consistant accuracy. But with shot the center of the pattern is about a foot below the point of aim (the point of aim being where the PRB hits.)

I'm shooting 1 oz of #6 shot with between 65 and 90 grns of 2f. Changing the powder amount changes the spread of the pattern, but it doesn't change the fact that the center of the pattern is a foot below the point of aim. :hmm:

Any suggestions? :confused:
 
I don't know if it will change the point of impact, but have you tried smaller shot?
 
Squirrel Tail said:
I've just switched out the original 50 calibre barrel for my Traditions Hawken with a Green Mountain 54 cal/28 gauge smoothbore barrel. I sighted it in at 25 yards with a patched roundball to start. Pretty consistant accuracy. But with shot the center of the pattern is about a foot below the point of aim (the point of aim being where the PRB hits.)

I'm shooting 1 oz of #6 shot with between 65 and 90 grns of 2f. Changing the powder amount changes the spread of the pattern, but it doesn't change the fact that the center of the pattern is a foot below the point of aim. :hmm:

Any suggestions? :confused:
For what its worth, Goex 3F produced better shot patterns in both my GM .54 and .62cal smoothbore barrels.

Since you have an adjustable rear sight, zero for RB or shot, then simply count the elevation clicks you have to make to change the POI to zero the other one and write that down somewhere.

Note 1:
For final zero on either one, make your final adjustments NOT from a bench but from the most common shooting position you'll be using in the field...for RB you'll probabloy be able to grab some sort of rest so try and duplicate that.

But for shot loads you'll probably be standing up on your hind legs and that's how you need to make your final adjustments for shot loads...will definitely affect POI.

Note 2:
'Articap' gave me a good tip that works perfectly for shot loads...put a piece of tape over the rear sight to cover up the slot and then just set the bead on the top of the rear sight like its a "rib" on a regular shotgun...target aquisition is as fast as shooting a modern shotgun.
 
i have the same rifle and i wanted a smoothbore for it aswell. Is this barrel a total conversion or is it this a interchangeable barrel with the factory one?
 
mckutzy said:
i have the same rifle and i wanted a smoothbore for it aswell. Is this barrel a total conversion or is it this a interchangeable barrel with the factory one?

It's a bit of work, it isn't exactly drop in for the Traditions. Nothing too complicated. Just a few days ago I posted what I had to do in the Gunbuilders Bench, you might want to take a look: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/218142/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Note 2:
'Articap' gave me a good tip that works perfectly for shot loads...put a piece of tape over the rear sight to cover up the slot and then just set the bead on the top of the rear sight like its a "rib" on a regular shotgun...target aquisition is as fast as shooting a modern shotgun.

Ditto on the tape, works like a charm. that is what liked best about it, one doesn't have to waste tome trying to find the RS notch, just a quick glance down the barrel with front bead resting on top center.
 
Were you shooting the PRB off a bench rest and the shot patterns offhand? I have noticed that my rifles will shot higher off a solid rest than when shooting offhand. This could be what is happening to you. Where is your impact with the round ball when you shoot offhand?
 
Grenadier1758 said:
Were you shooting the PRB off a bench rest and the shot patterns offhand? I have noticed that my rifles will shot higher off a solid rest than when shooting offhand. This could be what is happening to you. Where is your impact with the round ball when you shoot offhand?
Actually, yes, I was. I will try prb offhand and see what that does. Thanks!
 
Grenadier1758 said:
Were you shooting the PRB off a bench rest and the shot patterns offhand? I have noticed that my rifles will shot higher off a solid rest than when shooting offhand. This could be what is happening to you. Where is your impact with the round ball when you shoot offhand?
Different bench styles will produce different results off hand...if I zero on a bench, I have the rifle so managed and controlled that when I stand up and shoot off hand there's a higher recoil arc and my POI is higher.
I think its always best to make final adjustments from actual hunting positions...group size won't be as small but that doesn't matter...POI is what matters then...high, low, left, right, etc
 
FWIW, I have found that if I place my front bag rest right up next to the front of my trigger guard, that My POI does not differ between shooting from a rest or off-hand.

Remember, the forestock is NOT supporting the barrel; rather, its hanging off the barrel. Depending on the fit of the barrel to the stock, and what weight RamRod you hang from it, you should not see any difference.

Most MLers have octagon barrels, either full length, or half length, and that extra metal is there to help support a stock that hangs from the bottom of the barrel, or half rib.

I found that shooters who ask me, and have trouble with their bench groups or patterns shooting high usually are putting lots of pressure DOWN on the top of the wrist with their trigger hands, attempting to control recoil so the gun does not slap them in the face. They have mounted the gun wrong, and have their face over the top of the comb, instead of alongside it. I correct the head/stock position, ( the stocks need more drop at heel) and then ask them to take their thumb off the wrist, and lay it along side their index finger on the side of the stock. We move the fore rest back to the trigger guard. An alternative technique is to have them put their thumb on the back of a trigger guard, if that is possible( Not usually on a Lancaster style trigger guard) and use a pinch type squeeze technique to fire the gun off the bench.

Some bech rest shooters find a spot about 8 inches from the muzzle and rest their long barrels at that point. I know they get good groups, with rifles, because they have found a spot where they interrupt the barrel vibrations ( Harmonics) the least for their rest. I don't know if this puts the ball at a different POI than if the gun was shot off-hand. Considering how little pressure these shooters put on either the stock or trigger guards, I doubt it.

Finally, always check the fit between the barrel and the stock. If there is visible play in the forestock, even in a shotgun, you may want to bed that barrel more firmly. Try putting paper wedges at the very front of the forestock to see what that up-pressure does to shifting the POI. If the results are desireable, then build a well with some modeling clay,and pour some epoxy bedding compound into the well, and set the barrel, covered in a release agent, into the stock and let it set up. When that dried, go back and re-bed the tang and breech area for at least 4 inches with the bedding compound. Leave an area around the lugs and keyways of at least an inch on either side of it, so that the lug and pin, or key continue to work as designed.
 
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