Hello all, I am looking for some historical methods of wadding a smoothbore. Specifically on how a civilian hunter might wad their gun. I am familiar with tow and wasp nest respectively, and would like to hear some others.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
historical methods of wadding
- Thread starter Magungo1066
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
The Germans used leather in their Jaeger rifles and that was brought here in the period. I have read period accounts of leather used in smoothbores as well. Paper was used. They would cut it into a rectangle that when folded would be square and beyond the corners, roughly bore sized. ‘Cut paper’ it was often referred to. Cut blankets as well. Green leaves. That’s the thing, if it was available in the period, was of little or no value, and seemed like it would serve, it was used, or at least tried.
Thats what I assumed. A lot of trial and error and testing new materials I guess. "hey this might work" or thereabouts.
I have found records of several unusual wads being used. Besides tow and brown paper, there are cork, felt from old hats, moss from apple trees, Spanish moss, fearnought cloth, “shavings of kinnickinick, or some other green wood”.
Spence
Spence
A long discourse on shooting in England recommended the old felt stuffing from an old saddle. An old gun recovered, I think from South Carolina, had coconut husk.
ohio ramrod
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2008
- Messages
- 7,473
- Reaction score
- 2,208
Historically they used whatever they had!
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
Yep cork was really talked up in several period treatises on shooting. I still have to try that out.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2006
- Messages
- 3,936
- Reaction score
- 1,042
One quote reads something like "nothing shoots so fierce as an old saddle piece" - which could be understood as the loose stuffing from inside the saddle, or wads punched from old saddle flaps, or wads punched or cut from a saddle pad which would have been a heavy wool felt pad used between the saddle & the horses back. My thinking is wool saddle pad - much easier to find & much more likely to be disposed of/available cheap/free. Saddles were/are costly & can be restuffed/have stuffing added if required.
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
I always thought they meant 'leather' by a 'piece of old saddle' but you've convinced me. The padding....You silver tongued devil.
I like my horse too much to steal her padding, lol, but then i bet the old saddles were better made
Off subject but her name is willow...
Not I. He didn't say a 'piece of old saddle', but saddle pierce...
Now search for Tow, and some old Saddle pierce:
No Wadding lies so close or drives so fierce.
Why would you want both tow and any kind of stuffing as wadding? I decided what he was suggesting was tow and leather wads punched...pierced....from old saddle leather. But that's just me.
Spence
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
Right you are. I stand humbly corrected.
I have some knowledge of horses and tack. My wife decided just last year that we were too old to ride and keep up with all the maintenance the horses required. So, the last one was sold earlier this year.
Sigh...
Anyway, saddle pads take many forms. I've seen small, secondary pads of felt, but most of the saddle pads you see are of heavy fabric , stuffed and quilted. I've also seen lambswool or shearling pads, and then there are "saddle blankets," which are typically of a very heavy weave, around 30" by 60" or so. These are folded in half and put under the saddle. Mountain men often used saddle pads of buffalo calf skins, with the hair on. These were called apishamores (spelling varies), which I understand is derived from a Cree word.
I am not familiar with the quote above, and would be interested in its source. However, I am inclined to believe George is on the right track. There was an article in Muzzle Blasts (February 1955, page 13) entitled "M.L. Shooting in the Seventies" (meaning the 1870's) which described the use of leather wads punched from old harness. The article described shot loads with leather wads as very hard-hitting. Interestingly enough, the Bevel Brothers did an article about shot loads and wadding in Muzzle Blasts just a couple of months ago, comparing velocity and pattern density between wadding of grass or loose fiber and commercial cut wads. The difference was substantial, in favor of the card and fiber wads. The net result of all of this is that punched (or "pierced"?) leather wads were known and appreciated pretty far back in time, as an improvement over loose fiber as wadding, although that may not have been general knowledge.
George Emmons wrote of native people in the Pacific Northwest using shredded bark for wadding, and George Bent (whose mother was Southern Cheyenne) wrote that his people used willow bark:
I recently found a reference to the occasional use of tobacco by Native American people as wadding, but this was reserved for "special" loads. I got the impression that to them, this was equivalent to loading a "silver bullet," sort of a magic load.
There was also an old trade gun pulled out of the Suwannee River here in Florida a few years ago. It was still loaded, and analysis showed the wadding was palmetto fiber, which, incidentally, looks exactly like coconut fiber. Tenngun mentioned an old gun from South Carolina (the "Palmetto State") that had a load wadded with coconut husk. I suspect it may have been palmetto fiber.
I have experimented with Spanish moss, tow, palmetto fiber, and shredded inner bark of juniper, shooting ball loads in a trade gun. I don't have a chronograph to measure velocity, but I did find that the gun fouled very quickly, after just a few shots.
There are lots of historically accurate possibilities for wadding. However, I think the Bevel Brothers article showed a clear advantage in using punched wads as opposed to loose fiber in shot loads. This should be a consideration for hunters.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
Excellent post Bob. The referenced excerpt is from ‘An essay on Shooting’ 1789, John Acton
I have experimented fairly extensively with historical wadding, including tow and brown paper. I've also worked out good loads for ball and shot using shredded cedar bark, took all my normal game with it, rabbit, squirrel, dove, turkey, deer. Early on in working with tow and cedar I realized the loads were not as powerful as those with punched wads or modern commercial ones using the same powder charges. I figured there was a loss of pressure from the gasses blowing through the soft, porous wadding material, even when rammed well. I tried something to avoid that which worked very well, using another historical wadding. I tried putting a brown paper wad over powder before loading the tow or cedar, and that simple barrier solved the problem.
My experience made me wonder if Markland's recommendation for both tow and old saddle pierce didn't consist of a punched leather wad over powder, then the tow. No way to know, of course, but that's my story and i'm sticking to it.
Spence
My experience made me wonder if Markland's recommendation for both tow and old saddle pierce didn't consist of a punched leather wad over powder, then the tow. No way to know, of course, but that's my story and i'm sticking to it.
Spence
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 3,825
- Reaction score
- 2,866
Almost what ever was available.
Paper of course was easy to patch with and available.
Any kind of fibers, pulled rope, flax tow etc.
Leather could be used and was, deer hide as seen in Mike Belleviue’s Charleville video.
Certain insect nests We’re highly effective, wasp nests etc.
One thing I think is often overlooked regarding wadding is used dried tea, coffee grinds Etc. In colonial periods 18th century, people did have a trash day, so they often would recycle things that could be reused before it was burned or fed to hogs.
Paper of course was easy to patch with and available.
Any kind of fibers, pulled rope, flax tow etc.
Leather could be used and was, deer hide as seen in Mike Belleviue’s Charleville video.
Certain insect nests We’re highly effective, wasp nests etc.
One thing I think is often overlooked regarding wadding is used dried tea, coffee grinds Etc. In colonial periods 18th century, people did have a trash day, so they often would recycle things that could be reused before it was burned or fed to hogs.
Capt. Jas.
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2005
- Messages
- 3,048
- Reaction score
- 1,352
Has anyone got any documentation of wasp and hornet nests being used as wadding pre- 20th century?
Good luck finding that. I've been looking for that documentation for more than three decades but have come up empty. I've asked that question at least a dozen times on various forums with never a single response. I have found one mention from very late 19th century, but it may very well be fiction.
A Turkey Hunt, by David Dodge, Outing Magazine, Vol 27, October 1895 to March 1896, pg. 231.
Outing. v. 27 1895-96.
"His amazingly long-barreled gun, which was an old “flint-and-steel” converted into a percussion, was an object of unbounded interest. The loading proceeded with the greatest deliberation. Matt had his own notions about loading a gun and believed that his way was the only sure one for turkey. The charges had to be measured with extreme nicety, a certain sized shot unmixed with any others, and hornet’s-nest wadding had to be used. The last wad had always to be rammed till the ramrod had bounced out of the barrel seven times."
Spence
