I'm still pretty new at muzzleloading and/or black powder shooting. I took it up about a year and a half ago because our local club has monthly matches in both pistol and rifle and I wanted to shoot competitively more often than the monthly high power match I was attending about 50 miles away. Early on I started using Hodgdon Triple 7 Powder because I thought it was cleaner and also because I could easily buy it online just like smokeless. And, I had no trouble with it in either my Ruger Old Army or my Lyman GP. That is, until the last two rifle matches where I had repeated failures of the powder to ignite--regardless of the caps used--standard or magnum, CCI, RWS, or Remington. The last match, a friend loaded me a can of Goex FFFg and I had no further problems. I should add that prior to this match I had removed the barrel of my gun and cleaned and flushed it thoroughly. The afternoon prior to the match I tested it with Triple 7 and fired four shots satisfactorily. The Ruger Old Army continues to function well with Triple 7 land I will keep using it for pistol matches but I guess I'm stuck with several pounds of Triple 7 in FFg grade for the rifle. One shooter suggested using a load of maybe 10g BP with 30g of Triple7 on top just to make use of the powder I have until it's gone and can use BP thereafter. Another guy thinks the Triple 7 has degraded and that is the source of my problem--but I've only had the powder for a year or so. Anybody have any similar trouble with Triple 7?
Hodgdon Triple 7
- Thread starter 45ACPete
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Try changing to a new nipple. The holes in them wear down, especially with hotter loads. Cheap and easy check to see what's really going on.
galamb
58 Cal.
I'm not a huge fan of 777 - personally feel it was designed for "non-side hammer guns" that we don't talk about.
But given your "stash" I wouldn't waste it either.
I agree, replace the nipple and see if that helps. If not, then I certainly would burn it up with a duplex load - a bit of black down the spout then the 777 on top.
And do lot's of target shooting/plinking to use it up
But given your "stash" I wouldn't waste it either.
I agree, replace the nipple and see if that helps. If not, then I certainly would burn it up with a duplex load - a bit of black down the spout then the 777 on top.
And do lot's of target shooting/plinking to use it up
I've been using T7 for a decade, no trouble.
Another vote for a new nipple, I've had a lot of luck with Knights Red Hot nipples.
The barrel and flash channel need to be pristean clean, and it sounds like your doing that,, but don't neglect that nipple, I use a small brass brush, (from NAPA, it's like a toothbrush) and pipe cleaners. I get ahold of that little nipple with a needle nose pliers and really scrub it good each time,,
Another vote for a new nipple, I've had a lot of luck with Knights Red Hot nipples.
The barrel and flash channel need to be pristean clean, and it sounds like your doing that,, but don't neglect that nipple, I use a small brass brush, (from NAPA, it's like a toothbrush) and pipe cleaners. I get ahold of that little nipple with a needle nose pliers and really scrub it good each time,,
The fact that the rifle shot the 777 without a problem tells me the cause of the misfires is due to the flame channel (hole) that connects the nipple with the bore at the breech.
I suggest that you buy some old fashioned pipe cleaners. The kind pipe smokers use to clean the pipe stems.
They used to sell them at the local Drug store until the store got on the anti-smoking bandwagon.
Tobacco and smoke shops still sell them.
Anyway, if you remove the nipple and soak the breech area of the barrel in some water you can then peek into the threaded hole where the nipple was.
Toward the bottom you will see the flame channel hole. Run the pipe cleaner in as far as it will go. Then using a push/pull action scourer the hole.
Do this wetting and scourering several times to get rid of all the fouling that's collected over the years.
I'm betting the misfires will no longer be a problem.
I suggest that you buy some old fashioned pipe cleaners. The kind pipe smokers use to clean the pipe stems.
They used to sell them at the local Drug store until the store got on the anti-smoking bandwagon.
Tobacco and smoke shops still sell them.
Anyway, if you remove the nipple and soak the breech area of the barrel in some water you can then peek into the threaded hole where the nipple was.
Toward the bottom you will see the flame channel hole. Run the pipe cleaner in as far as it will go. Then using a push/pull action scourer the hole.
Do this wetting and scourering several times to get rid of all the fouling that's collected over the years.
I'm betting the misfires will no longer be a problem.
Patocazador
54 Cal.
777 is infamous for leaving a crud ring in the barrel near the breach. Did you clean really well and maybe use a scraper attachment to make sure that crud build up isn't the problem?
Have used T7 in my caplocks for 14 years. Never had any problems with it igniting at all...and never experienced the infamous "crud ring" either.
Patocazador
54 Cal.
I believe the crud ring is experienced more with rifles with hotter ignition systems (code for 'you know what').
If you have a small shop, make sure the nipple hole is big enough, .040" will ignite any stubborn substitute :thumbsup:
B.
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I've had the same issues with Triple 7 that you have, although that is not universal. I am inclined to believe that you answered your own question.
"The last match, a friend loaded me a can of Goex FFFg and I had no further problems."
One can of real black powder (Goex, Graff's, Kik are all fine) and I wanted nothing more to do with substitutes. Misfires have dropped to Zero, or at least to less than one in a thousand. Ordering on line is a mild pain, but I only do it less than once a year.
"The last match, a friend loaded me a can of Goex FFFg and I had no further problems."
One can of real black powder (Goex, Graff's, Kik are all fine) and I wanted nothing more to do with substitutes. Misfires have dropped to Zero, or at least to less than one in a thousand. Ordering on line is a mild pain, but I only do it less than once a year.
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Most people have trouble solving problems because they don’t use a scientific method of problem solving. Your hypothesis /diagnosis is all over the board, these are variables and need to be eliminated one by one.
That being said:
It is doubtful that the 777 has degraded unless it has been improperly stored. This can be tested by using the powder in another gun.
I suspect the problem is between the cap and the powder charge
Also; have you introduced any new variables prior to the onset of trouble(like a new cleaning solvent or patch lube)?
We do not solve problems by looking for answers; we solve them by eliminating questions.
That being said:
It is doubtful that the 777 has degraded unless it has been improperly stored. This can be tested by using the powder in another gun.
I suspect the problem is between the cap and the powder charge
Also; have you introduced any new variables prior to the onset of trouble(like a new cleaning solvent or patch lube)?
We do not solve problems by looking for answers; we solve them by eliminating questions.
colorado clyde said:
Correct and after years of suffering the subs and years of numerous cap locks they all struggled to ignite said fuels but were remedied via opening the nipple orifice to .040", of which happens to work just fine with BP also :hatsoff:
Col. Batguano
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colorado clyde said:
Great quote :thumbsup:
Billnpatti
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What I have to say on the subject will, most likely, be a summation of what others have said. First of all, all of the substitutes are harder to ignite and you will have better results with magnum caps and a nipple such as the Flame Thrower. That combination will get maximum flame to the charge and that is what you need. Naturally, you must be sure that the nipple and flame channel are clean and free of moisture or oil. Triple 7 has a reputation for forming crud in the breach of a rifle. I can't say for sure that it is true in all instances but I had a man sell me a rifle at a dirt cheap price because it wouldn't fire. He had been using Triple 7 in it. Upon inspection after I boought it, I found a chunk of hard crud had built up in the breach and had the flash channel completely blocked. I cleaned out the crud and started feeding it Goex 3f black powder and it was an excellent rifle. So, after shooting your rifle make sure that you properly clean it with soapy water to remove any crud build up.
Keep the breach clean and dry, keep the flash channel open and clean, use a nipple such as a Flame Thrower or Hot Shot and use magnum caps and you should enjoy shooting your Triple 7 a lot more.
Keep the breach clean and dry, keep the flash channel open and clean, use a nipple such as a Flame Thrower or Hot Shot and use magnum caps and you should enjoy shooting your Triple 7 a lot more.
Sound advice. I might add that I used T-7 with success for several years before switching to Goex exclusively. One thing I noticed and learned is that using too much lube on your shooting patch or too much liquid on your cleaning patch will affect T-7 worse than black. Your shooting patches should be lightly lubes or dry lubes and if you swab between shots I've found that a cleaning lightly dampened with 91% rubbing alcohol works great.
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Right on, Brit.
I must admit I don’t shoot 777, I tried it once when a friend loaned me some and wasn’t impressed enough to warrant buying it.
When Black MZ came out I was all excited”¦ that didn’t last long, as it proved unreliable in my 12 gauge shotgun. Opening up the nipple fixed it. Not all nipples have the same size flash hole and yes nipples do wear out.
There is no substitute for the real thing. Nothing shoots like it, smells like it, or cleans like it.
I must admit I don’t shoot 777, I tried it once when a friend loaned me some and wasn’t impressed enough to warrant buying it.
When Black MZ came out I was all excited”¦ that didn’t last long, as it proved unreliable in my 12 gauge shotgun. Opening up the nipple fixed it. Not all nipples have the same size flash hole and yes nipples do wear out.
There is no substitute for the real thing. Nothing shoots like it, smells like it, or cleans like it.
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Thanks, Col. Batguano.
I do have my moments.
As far as I know it wasn’t a quote it was an original attributable to me. :grin:
I do have my moments.
As far as I know it wasn’t a quote it was an original attributable to me. :grin:
Rat Trapper
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Spikebuck said:
2X
Get a hot shot nipple.
What size hole does one of these nipples have please?Rat Trapper said:
The Knight Red Hot that I use has a .032 (inches) hole. I know this because I've purchased .032 piano/music wire in .032 to make nipple picks.
An interesting thing I found,, Lot's of folks recommend the Ampco Bronze nipple for longevity so I thought I'd try some. The hole in the Ampco is smaller than .032,, The Ampco nipple does not work well with T7, :idunno:
An interesting thing I found,, Lot's of folks recommend the Ampco Bronze nipple for longevity so I thought I'd try some. The hole in the Ampco is smaller than .032,, The Ampco nipple does not work well with T7, :idunno:
