Honing out a barrel

[dan d]

I picked up a single shot pistol a few weeks back really cheap. Well yesterday I found out why it was so cheap after visiting a very knowledgable friend who plays with black powder. He looked it over, bent the hammer to properly strike the nipple, then he started looking closer at it & asked me if I fired it. I told him only once to see if it worked (which it did) he asked how did it hit & I told him I only shot it once into a ditch bank, but to be truthful I couldn't see where the bullet hit into the snow as it didn't hit nowhere near what I was aiming at.

He said it looks like the barrel was sawed off (when he pointed that out I had to agree with his observation as the end was very sharp on the ID & OD, and the face of the barrel was rough. We looked at the bore & it was very pitted, it was difficult to see what was left of the riffling. He said to take it to a local black powder shop & see if it was worth anything for parts, the local shop wouldn't even give me $20 to trade for goex

On the hour drive home chatting with my friend I asked what happens if I ream the bore out & hone it to .500 ? I work at a machine shop where we could face the front of the muzzle in a lathe square to the ID, ream it out & then finish hone the barrel within .0002 of a 50 cal bore spec. (I would end up with a smoothbore )

Is this worth doing or would I still have junk ? I looked at buying a barrel for $60, then it would still need dovetails cut along with shortening it as the gun would not look right with a 12 inch standard replacement pistol barrel. Starting to get into a lot of work considering I could by a kit pistol at the black powder shop for $160 & just be done.

Reaming & honing the existing barrel would be pretty simple & not cost me anything. Is it worth doing or am I still waisting mine & others time ?

Thanks guys,
Dan

 

[necchi]

Well as long as the only cost is your labor ,, your golden.

The breech plug by some makers can give you problems, who makes the gun? CVA/Traditions?

 

[dan d]

It's an older one out of the 70's I was told, if I remember right my friend thought it was a CVA. The only marking on it is "Spain" stamped on the bottom of the barrel. It has an older look to it that I like, a browned barrel, not blued, it is not etched full of name brands & serial numbers like the newer kits that make them look modern to me.

I did get the breach plug out easier than I thought it would go.

Will I have any accuracy at all with a smoothbore ? I can indicate & ID grind the front muzzle within .0002 (maybe .0001 even) or like I said above am I just wasting shop time that should be spent on paying jobs :wink:

Edit: I found a pic that I posted earlier

 

[Billnpatti]

I'd say that as long as you are doing it yourself and not spending any money on it, go for it. You may have to pour the bore full of a penetrating oil and letting it soak for a few days to get the breach plug out. After you square up the muzzle, you will need to chamfer it slightly to get rid of the sharp edges. Just be sure to get the chamfering absolutley even or it will not shoot straight. An uneven finish to the muzzle will allow the hot gasses to escape out one side nanoseconds before it exits the opposing side. This will cause the exiting ball to go slightly to the side away from the one which allows the gas to escape first. Depending on where the side that allows to gasses to escape first is located, the ball will go high, low,left or right and not where you are aiming. Done right, you will have a fun gun to play with. Not a target pistol but one that will be fun to play with.

 

[RADeO]

Dan, you should be able to achieve a pretty good degree of accuracy at short range, say 20 yards or so, maybe a bit more. We are maybe talking no worse than 4" groups here. :idunno: You will need to find a load your pistol likes. The guys here who shoot smoothbore arms can give you more expert guidance.

One advantage you will have with a smoothbore pistol is that you can shoot a ball cast from any old scrap lead available. There is no need to use pure lead because there will be no rifling to be engraved on the patched ball. Just a nice snug fit is all you need.

Heck, just bore and ream the barrel as you suggested and have yourself a fun little pistol! My own ancient CVA flintlock pistol with very shallow rifling always shoots one-hole groups at 25 yards,....... that is until I fire the second shot.:grin:

 

[necchi]

Looks like an old Hopkins & Allen.

Will I have any accuracy at all with a smoothbore ?

Nope.
Not with that one, you should be able to hit the gut of someone under the poker table and hit a door at about 15'
I don't think you'll hit the door at 20'.
But what the heck, it'll go bang and be fun! :wink:

 

[dan d]

Ok, no accuracy

What if. :hmm: ..........................

When I ream it on the lathe I put in a .03 deep spiral in the ID, we call it a lube channel at work. Then hone it to size :hmm:

It would be sort of a rifling, I say sort of as it would not be raised like rifling, but I would think a tight fit patch would still grab it in get some spin going.

I'm a thinker if you cannot tell, I enjoy thinking like this, but sometimes I overthink things & you know where that takes you :youcrazy: :grin:

 

[cynthialee]

Looks like a CVA colonial pistol. Jukar barrel.

imo

I never had a bore reamed but it looks like the guys who posted before me had good advice.

 

[dan d]

Hmmmmm.......... :hmm:

After a little bit of thinking about the last brainstorm about the lube groove I realized it might cause the powder / gas to leak around the bullet.

Hmmmmm......... If it was shallow enough you would think the patch would seal it, but the gun manufactures don't do it for a reason as it would be cheaper to do it that way. Maybe if I only put the lube groove in the last 3 inches it would work like a rifled choke tube in a shotgun :hmm:

I told you I like to think (maybe over think) about stuff like this :wink:

 

[necchi]

Why not put 5-6 lube grooves in, and call it a rifled bore with lands an grooves.
Turn your 45 into a 50.

 

[dan d]

That's my plan, just don't know if it will work :idunno:

I have been known to way overthink things & just end up wasting time & money. I'm thinking I might be in the process of doing the same thing one more time :wink:

This wouldn't cost much, maybe a beer or two. But I don't want to cash in favors for a bad reason.

Edit: is this gun worth buying a $60 barrel and just doing it the right way ? A friend says he can dovetail the barrel for sights, so the whole project would cost $60 plus a 6 pack of beer to get the barrel dovetailed.

 

[cynthialee]

why not bore the old barrel first?

If you mess it up you can still get a new barrel. And if you do it right and it works out you have a cheep gun. Fail or succeed you will get some more experiance working metal. So it is a win win.

 

[Billnpatti]

What have you got to loose? The barrel is junk right now so about anything you do to it will be an improvement. Give the lube groove(s) a try. If it works, we will all benefit from your experiment. If it fails, just hone out the lube groove(s) and you have a smoothbore. Keep cutting grooves and testing what you have. If it is a failure hone them out. Keep experimenting until you no longer have enough wall thickness for a safe barrel. At that point. take $60 and a six pack and replace your barrel.

 

[Moose Guide]

I would bore it smooth and then see what the accuracy is like, if it won't shoot a 4" patern at 10 or 15 yds you can try your home made rifling idea. If it still won't shoot straight enough get a new barrel!

 

[necchi]

is this gun worth buying a $60 barrel and just doing it the right way ?

Nope, the lock is slow and weak and can't be improved, and the stock/grip configuration isn't the best balance.
Your money is best saved and used to purchase a newer model with a longer barrel and better balance to the frame.

Just ding around with it like you wanted to in the first place, make a smoothy out of it and have some fun.

 

[George T.]

If you plan on getting rich selling it or winning matches shooting it your destined to be dissapointed. If you are looking ti amuse your self and have some fun you a go! Geo. T.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with necchi.

Just run a reamer down the bore to the breech plug.

If it doesn't clean up the rust/pitting then select a reamer that's .005 larger and do it again.

If the size ends up within .010 of what you want your good to go. In other words a .510 bore will work just as good as a .500.

The patch thickness you use with the ball will make up for the difference in size.

As for rifling, it is important with a rifle where the range is going to be 50 or 100 yards.

For a pistol that's just for poking holes in a target for fun or for plinking a smoothbore will get the job done.

 

[Dphar]

You need to ask if the lock and breech are worth using.
The barrel is not the only part to consider.
Its possible to ream it smooth but if its been shot with corrosive subsitutes (sure thing) the BREECH may be ruined as well. OR the threads may be too small to allow reaming it so the breech has to be removed and inspected for "crawdad holes" caused by abuse.
So do some research and find someone who can give you some sound advice. There is no free lunch and these low end things were basically junk when brand new.
Many sold for less than 25 bucks in the 1960s. When a rifle barrel was 25-35 bucks.
Dan

 

[zimmerstutzen]

That is one of the early CVA Colonial pistols, made before about 1980. The early 1970's models barely had any rifling more than spiral scratches.

Unlike the later models it does have a bolster breech plug which can be removed.

That gun brand new was barely more than junk

If the breech plug checks out, reaming it to smooth may actually improve accuracy. They had notoriously heavy trigger pulls and the lock internals were often not hardened property.

Most shooters can't tell the difference between a smooth bore pistol and a rifled pistol at pistol ranges. Smooth bore would permit loading with shot for snakes.

 

[dan d]

I was told by our local Black powder shop these guns had issues. I asked if he would trade me for a can of black powder & he declined He told me it was more of a hassle for him to take it in on trade & risk making a customer mad from this gun that no parts are available for.

Our shop is pretty busy right now so it will be a bit before I can get non-paying work done. I will keep you posted on my results from this experiment. Plus it is still pretty nasty this time of year in Michigan so I have a month or so before I will be wanting to be outside shooting.

Thanks for all the friendly advice !
Dan