Hooked breech rifles

[donjp]

I have owned a couple of TC rifles that the barrel was easily removed by simply taking out the wedge, and lifting off the barrel due to the hooked breech feature. Are any other production guns equipped with this same feature such as Investarms or Pedersoli? Thanks

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most Investarms use the hooked breech, especially the "Hawken" half stock variants. The same is true for the Pedersoli half stock rifles. The Traditions half stock rifles also have the hooked breech.

An exception is the 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle.

 

[UndeadPoet]

CVA sidelocks had a hook or button breech which allowed easy removal of the barrel. Most full stock, “longrifle-style” rifles don’t.

 

[doubleset]

Lyman.

I confess that I find my hooked breech GPR to be only mildly more convenient than my Traditions Crockett with integral tang, once I made a more serviceable tang bolt for it.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Lyman.

I confess that I find my hooked breech GPR to be only mildly more convenient than my Traditions Crockett with integral tang, once I made a more serviceable tang bolt for it.

Is your Crockett pinned or does it have wedges?

 

[doubleset]

Is your Crockett pinned or does it have wedges?

Single wedge, and then the tang bolt that screws into the trigger guard. I replaced the original tang bolt with a stainless hex-drive bolt in order to not be munging up the original slotted (and fairly soft) machine screw that came with it. I prefer a black oxide bolt there, just for looks, but couldn't find one that would have been reasonable to try to buy. I pull the barrel off every time I clean the gun (bucket of soap and water), and so that bolt gets used a lot.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Single wedge, and then the tang bolt that screws into the trigger guard. I replaced the original tang bolt with a stainless hex-drive bolt in order to not be munging up the original slotted (and fairly soft) machine screw that came with it. I prefer a black oxide bolt there, just for looks, but couldn't find one that would have been reasonable to try to buy. I pull the barrel off every time I clean the gun (bucket of soap and water), and so that bolt gets used a lot.

Yeah, with a wedge, that wouldn’t be that bad. Pinned are a little more work. My Pedersoli Blue Ridge/Frontier has an integral tang, but the barrel is held on by two screws that go through the ramrod barrels and into the bottom of the barrel. It is pretty easy to take apart, too.

 

[doubleset]

In terms of maintenance, the pinning approach does not sound like a direction in which I would like to go. But that's because of my own particular interests -- or lack thereof.

 

[JHSA-President]

I've only seen the hooked breech approach...the Pedersoli Hawken Hunter has a different system and I cannot realize visualize how it works to remove the barrel...if someone has pics or a video on that works...

 

[doubleset]

My GUESS (from looking at pictures of it) is that it works like the Crockett rifle. Also, I take Traditions to be equivalent to Pedersoli in this respect since I believe that Pedersoli is making (at least some) Traditions models now (and perhaps has been for some time).

They produce two models: "hooked-breech" and "integral tang". So my suspicion is that one of the screws that goes through your rear tang-mounted sight is a machine screw that. In that case, you remove the wedge in the usual way, and then remove "Remove the tang screw located at the very back end of the barrel" (which I suspect in the case of the Hunter means the rearmost screw, but I'm not certain). In the case of the Crockett, you can see the threaded hole that the tang screw engages by looking just ahead of the front trigger inside the trigger guard. But you may also have to remove the front sight screw as well. I don't have a clue.

Once the wedge and tang screw are removed, you just lift the barrel out as you would a hooked breech barrel. It may be tough to do this the first time because it will be in there pretty tightly. You may have to at least loosen the lock screws as well because these (if tightened) may be squeezing the stock onto the barrel. One of my gripes about the Crockett rifle is the inletting of the stock and things like there being too much of a void in places which allows that sort of barrel squeezing, but I won't go into that here. The tang is also likely to be tightly inlet. My advice is be gentle, but firm. Otherwise, tapping the barrel with a rubber mallet to encourage it out of the stock is an option (assuming you've removed the wedge and correct tang screw).

That's my speculation.

Doesn't Pedersoli have any support available? I called Traditions and got truly excellent support from one of their gunsmiths in a matter of a couple of minutes.

 

[UndeadPoet]

My GUESS (from looking at pictures of it) is that it works like the Crockett rifle. Also, I take Traditions to be equivalent to Pedersoli in this respect since I believe that Pedersoli is making (at least some) Traditions models now (and perhaps has been for some time).

Unless I am mistaken, Pedersoli (in Italy) does not make any rifles for Traditions. Traditions muzzleloaders are manufactured in Spain by Ardesa S.A.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lets not forget the old H&A rifles. While their set up was not 'hooked' it worked similarly. The breech plug was simply a large Allen screw. The end of the tang had a matching stud. Easy peasy. I sold the H&As in my shop because of the safety feature of the plug not requiring expert installation.

 

[doubleset]

Unless I am mistaken, Pedersoli (in Italy) does not make any rifles for Traditions. Traditions muzzleloaders are manufactured in Spain by Ardesa S.A.

You're right. What I saw -- I now recall -- was a recent announcement by Lyman that Pedersoli will be making (some of) their rifles.

 

[user 48679]

My A&H flintlock Mountain Rifles (half-stocks) have that feature

 

[UndeadPoet]

You're right. What I saw -- I now recall -- was a recent announcement by Lyman that Pedersoli will be making (some of) their rifles.

Yep. Pedersoli now makes the Great Plains Rifles for Lyman (replacing Investarms).

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Pedersoli Signature Series Rifle for Lyman is not identical to the Investarms version of the Great Plains Rifle. The barrel length is different, and the rate of twist is different (Pedersoli is 1 in 48 and Investarms is 1 in 60).

 

[doubleset]

Interesting ... I assume to capture a wider market.

 

[UndeadPoet]

The Pedersoli Signature Series Rifle for Lyman is not identical to the Investarms version of the Great Plains Rifle. The barrel length is different, and the rate of twist is different (Pedersoli is 1 in 48 and Investarms is 1 in 60).

You are correct that the Pedersoli GPR is 1:48” twist, but it still has the 32” barrel. The Pedersoli Great Plains Hunter rifle has a 30” (instead of the Investarms 32”) barrel, and is a faster 1:24” twist.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Interesting ... I assume to capture a wider market.

Maybe. Supposedly, the original Hawken Brothers’ “Hawken” rifles were often 1:48” twist.

 

[doubleset]

Maybe. Supposedly, the original Hawken Brothers’ “Hawken” rifles were often 1:48” twist.

Possibly to capture a wider market. I'm just thinking they would be more attractive to bullet rather than RB shooters, but without losing their attraction to most of the RB shooters who would buy them. But just total speculation.