Horn plug question

[BillinOregon]

I have had a nice bison horn lying around that I ordered from Bob at Union Creek a few years back. Finally decided to work it up as a powder horn. I am making the main plug the labor-intensive way, not softening the horn and stretching it round, but carving a plug to fit the horn's natural contour. Being a lousy craftsman, I am having a tough time getting the plug to fit flush with the horn mouth. I was wondering if there is a period correct method for sealing or "gasketing" the gap between the flat mouth edge of the horn and the flat lip of the plug that will look OK when I sand down and seal the wood. Even thought of using heavy paper for this purpose. Anyone else have this dilemma, or are you all much more skillful craftsmen than I am?

 

[Griz]

if you are fitting the plug flush with the end of the horn, cut your plug on a 10 degree angle so the tapered end goes into the horn. Start with the plug oversized and then you can see where the sanding needs to be done so you get a good tight fit. after you get the plug shaped like the horn you can cut and sand it flush. If you want period correct seal, then melt beeswax and pour it into the horn from the small tip end and twirl it around to seal the plug from the inside. If there is any small gaps on the out side try to fill them with beeswax also. But really try to fit it to the shape of the horn. Also, before your do any plug work make your horn a uniform thickness all the way around by fileing the inside till the thickness is the same. If you need any more info let me know. I hope this helps. :m2c:

 

[BillinOregon]

Thanks Griz: I have the plug rasped and sand down to where it fits inside the horn fine. I am just having trouble getting it fit snugly at the join gof the horn lip and the plug. Seems like no matter how hard I try, I end up with a gap of 2 mm somewhere around the joint. Oh well.
Also seems as though buffalo horn is a lot more fibrous than cow horn, and harded to scrape smooth.

 

[Jimrogers]

Thanks Griz: I have the plug rasped and sand down to where it fits inside the horn fine. I am just having trouble getting it fit snugly at the join gof the horn lip and the plug. Seems like no matter how hard I try, I end up with a gap of 2 mm somewhere around the joint. Oh well.
Also seems as though buffalo horn is a lot more fibrous than cow horn, and harded to scrape smooth.

Hi Bill, I used to wonder how they got the butt plug to fit so perfectly on flat horns, and after examining numerous I realized most had a couple of small nails or brads going through the plug because the butt plug is two piece.
Rough carve a plug to fit the opening, tack it in and I use a little wood glue to make it stay (don't worry a lot about air gaps cause we'll fix those in a minute).
Next, sand the plug flat to the horn opening so both are at the same level. A belt sander is best and I imagine hornmakers used to use grinding wheels for this.
Now cut another rough circle, just a bit larger than the horn, make sure it's flat, and then glue it to the plug in the horn. I use epoxy as it sets like iron, and make sure it's spread all over the surface so there are no air gaps afterwards and stick the second plug on and let them set. I believe they originally used hoof glue or some such and then added a nail or two to make sure.
Next, sand off all the excess wood si it fits flush and round the top to your aesthetic taste, and you now have a perfectly fitting plug with no air gaps easily built to fit any shape of horn be it oval, round, or flat.

Like the flat horn in this photo (some unfinished horns)

 

[BS]

If the out side cap is thick enough, screw them together from the inside. Just use short enough screws, so that they don't poke thru, and some glue or epoxy! The screw heads will be hidden on the inside.

 

[Powderhorn]

The moral the story here is to heat the horn (320) and make it perfectly round. It's a lot easier and looks good. It's also authentic for the entire period of horn making.
Hornman

 

[longshot47]

Thanks Griz: I have the plug rasped and sand down to where it fits inside the horn fine. I am just having trouble getting it fit snugly at the join gof the horn lip and the plug. Seems like no matter how hard I try, I end up with a gap of 2 mm somewhere around the joint. Oh well.
Also seems as though buffalo horn is a lot more fibrous than cow horn, and harded to scrape smooth.

Bill-
Beeswax might still be your answer. You can seal a small air leak pretty well from the outside with softened wax mixed with a touch of mineral oil. [some beeswax seems to harden so fast and brittle that its unworkable -without the mineral oil]....Longshot

 

[2172]

I've always just rough carved the sides of the plug to a close fit, boiled the horn until soft (or until the wife comes home and complains...which ever first occurs) and then hammer the plug in. I blow into the horn, and if I can feel air coming out, use bees wax to seal...I normally melt a little wax, and as it begins to harden, push it into any crevice with a tool...something simple like a nail... I'm impressed with the idea of applying the beeswax from the inside, and will try the two piece plug idea...at the moment, I'm trying to figure out how to use the Chines made lath I bought...Hank

 

[BillinOregon]

Fellas, the plug is a pretty good fit inside the mouth of the horn. It's just that dang seam where it fits down over the edge of the mouth that shows a gap.

Hank: Is that a Harbor Freight lathe? Always get the "I wants" when I see them on sale.

 

[riarcher]

If I understand you correctly, you already have it fitting inside up to a point (?). You're wanting to get the rim of the plug to match the horn edge with out a gap? Am I right?
If so, take 3-4 playing cards (or something simular) that covers the worst of your gap all the way around. Push the plug in tight, and with a sharp pencil trace all the way around the horn with the cards tight to the plug's shoulder. Sand/file the horn just to the mark and it'll fit perfectly. This is assuming the lip on your unfinished plug is still big enough. If not, you'll need to use a set of pointed dividers to trace the shape of the plug. One edge to the plug, the other to etch the horn.
Save some wood dust, when waxed rub the dust into whatever minute seam you've got left and it'll "look like you knew what you were doing". :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Fellas, the plug is a pretty good fit inside the mouth of the horn. It's just that dang seam where it fits down over the edge of the mouth that shows a gap.

Is this where your gap is?

 

[2172]

Billinoregon, this lathe is below that quality. Each year, some outfit comes through Asheville, and rents some large vacant space: an unoccupied former supermarket, an armory. They put a whole bunch of Chinese made tools on display. You're given an order form as you enter, you make your choices, and give the order to the cashier and pay for it all. Then you take the order to a trailer parked in the lot, and they give you the stuff...they helped me load the lathe, as I also bought a saw at the same time, and some small tools. These are not precision tools, but I believe I can learn fundamentals, and whether I want to got further, using them. The lathe cost about $150 +/-, and the saw was about $125 +/-....
Northern Tool has just opened a big store here in Asheville, and we wander around, drooling..Hank

 

[silverfox]

Horn base plug size? Another way to get it real close is to take the horn and use it like a cookie cutter on a thin piece of styroform. This should give you a perfect model of the inside of the horn. If you can make your plug match this model a little beeswax and you will have a good seal.
Fox :thumbsup: