Horn Question

[tx50cal]

I am currently building my first powder horn. I am building it with a springloaded valve that accepts different screw on tubes to throw different charges. Is it ok to charge from one of these type of horns or should I still use a powder measure? I want to work up the best loads for my rifles and then file the tubes to that powder charge. I want to just put my thumb over the end of the tube tip the horn up to fill the tube and then charge from the tube. I don't want any safety consernes though. Thanks for the help.
Rob

 

[bob1961]

always use a seperate measure, i wouldn't want a boom in my hand from a full powder horn of powder :shocked2: gotta be safe :v ..............bob

 

[Rebel]

Use a seperate measurer for safety.

 

[fallaloosa]

I would agree witht he two gentlemen here that already stated....use a separate measure. While a spring loaded one might never cause a horn to explode, I for one am not brave enough to try it! I would just use a stoper on the horn and go with a separate measure set to what charge you want. :v

 

[Kevin Bywater]

just curious, has anyone actually seen or experienced a powder ignition resulting from a "hot" barrel? :hmm:

 

[shmrck1]

Not me,but then again I try to be around
folks that use common sence. They all have
both hands and a face.Some ugly,but undamaged.
:rotf:My point being,Why take the chance:hmm:
snake-eyes :v

 

[MikeC]

Yep...BP is just to explosive to take a chance.

 

[George Holton]

only once and it was a skirmisher.

 

[crockett]

Most of those valves are not fireproof, in other words if a flame comes up the barrel it could explode the horn in your hand- not good.
What you can do is go ahead and put the measure on the horn but still hang a separate measure from your hunting pouch strap and dump the charge in the measure and then the barrel. That would be safe and only take an extra second or two.
If you look closely at the original flasks or flaskhorns, the tube isn't large enough for some of the guns being shot, they had to be using a separate measure. The benefit of the spring loaded latch is it is a lot faster than messing with a peg and there's no peg to loose.

 

[In Over My Head]

May I please tag on another powder horn question?

I understand powder can be set off by friction or impact. (My source on the friction idea is an old warning that pipe bombs can go off if there is powder on the threads as the caps are tightened.)

Is there any risk of setting off the powder if granules get crushed between the horn and the stopper as the stopper is pressed in?

Any special precautions in this regard? For instance are horn stoppers always press fit or can they be threaded?

(Inquiring minds can find confusion in the simplest things!)

 

[paulvallandigham]

The typical powder horn is made of HORN, and is plugged with some kind of wooden or ivory plug. No metal is involved. Without metal involved, I can't see that enough heat would be generated by crushing a grain or two between a wooden stopper and the horn to create enough heat to reach the flash point of powder.

However, as has been seen by the discussion of metal gaits, and plugs, or measures fitted to a powder horn, when you add metal, the equation gets a little closer. Metal on metal, with enough force, could conceivably make enough heat in crushing one or two granules sot that the powder could be lit. Then you have a serious problem IN your hands. A bomb exploding in your hands is going to leave an unuable mess, if its even still attached to a living human being. :shake: :nono: :shocked2:

 

[In Over My Head]

Paul, thanks for the reply.

So for a wooden plug against horn or wood, there should be essentially no risk.

Referencing threading I was still wondering about wood on wood. Just because the conventional plug seems susceptible to coming out if snagged - that and the fact that I know approximately nothing about horns in the first place.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Wood on wood should be no risk, either. I think you will find that any kind of screw-plug on a horn is a PITA! Use an old fashioned horn, with a tapered plug that is held in by friction. ( Think of the the string pins that hold the tops ends of the strings on a violin.) To tune a violin, or other string instrument, you merely nudge it out, and turn it then push it back in to hold by friction. The same occurs with horn and tapered plugs.

 

[CrackStock]

I wondered about the safety of using the end of the flask as a measure because it seems so efficient. However, an old timer unscrewed the gate and held it up to the light where I could see light coming through. He then mentioned that a spark in the bore would ignite the dumped powder charge and the barrel would channel the blast into that opening. Do you trust any gate that much?

As to the possibility of dieseling (compression ignition) black powder or causing a spark to igniting it, I would not worry too much about dieseling unless you are making a fire piston.

On the other hand, I would not want a ferrous metal powder container since vigorous use might well cause a dangerous spark.

CS

 

[Twisted_1in66]

just curious, has anyone actually seen or experienced a powder ignition resulting from a "hot" barrel? :hmm:

A good friend of mine in Vermont, who builds guns (rifles and muskets), had one of those brass bodied round ones with the supposedly fireproof gate. As he poured the charge down the barrel, it went off, ignited the powder flask and rocketed a nice round hole in the roof of the shelter where he was shooting.

He shared this experience with me when he saw me pouring a charge from a powder flask down the barrel. He gently reached out, pushed my hand back down, shook his head, said, "don't do that" and then told me what happened to him.

I always use either a measure or the old Rev War era paper cartridges. Don't need any holes in the roof or in any parts that get in between the flask/horn and the roof.

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

 

[MSW]

well,what Twister said...when i started making smoke, i was doing enough high risk stuff anyway (jumping out of airplanes into the inky blackness and all that manner of snake-eater stuff) and a fellow at the range told me 'don't do that' and explained why- no yelling and carrying on, just a bit of advice which i took to heart since it made sense. when i started reading this forum i was surprised to see the level of animosity about it.

really, the only time i would use a measure which poured directly from the horn is loading the empty, upended cylinder of a BP revolver when i had checked that there were no caps on any of the nipples.

i use a seprite horn for each rifle and each horn had its own powder measure attached to it. that way, i am using the pet charge for that particular rifle. if you have a target load and a hunting load, just swap out measures.anyway, don't charge directly from the horn- it is dangerous and will get you kicked off most well run ranges.

msw

 

[mingo]

In my military service I saw a number of accidents, from fatal to minor. These ranged from cutting corners, not paying attention, or just plain disregard of rules or practices.
It just ain't worth the breath of arguing.
Be safe. take the extra step and do it right.
Use a measure.

 

Well said and that should be enough.

 

[omarick1948]

Well not quite enough said!....Alway's practice safe black powder handling can never be understated! It has always amazed me how many muzzleloaders like to carry their powder horn(s) or flasks on the same side, as their gun lock side. I'm right handed and shoot the same..Duh!, but I carry my horn on my left side and away from my flintlock's shower of sparks! In addition, I make a few dozen powder horns annually and have for many year's and over 80% of the horns I make for people, they want right side carry. Something else that someone showed me years back and I do today, is I leave all of my spout pegs or plugs undrilled. I let them drill them, if they want too! Why?..If I have to hold the horn peg in my hand or teeth during loadng, I will always remember to put it back into the horn. I've seen several times, when someone had their horn pug dangling from a horn by some sort of cord or string because they forgot to put it back into their horn while shooting. Just acouple more safety things to thing about!

Rick Froehlich