Hottest powder?

[Smokey Plainsman]

What is the hottest, strongest real black powder (NOT substitute)that produces the highest velocities?

I have heard Swiss is hotter than most. Are there any other powders that shoot faster? Thanks!

 

[FishDFly]

Are there any other powders that shoot faster?

"Faster is determined by many things".

If you shoot a small ball, the velocity will be less than an shooting an over size ball.

Velocity is also determined by the seating pressure on a ball. Less pressure causes a decrease in velocity (ball shoots low), increase the seating pressure on the ball and velocity increases and the ball will shoot higher.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

With the same volume of powder, same granulation, same ball, same patch, same pressure during loading... what powder will shoot fastest among those available today?

 

[FishDFly]

I do not have that knowledge, maybe Pletch can help. He knows stuff.

 

[Zonie]

Swiss powder is generally believed to be the "hottest" powder available but GOEX, "Olde Eynsford" is supposed to be its equal.
http://www.goexpowder.com/olde-eynsford.html

 

[necchi]

It's kind of a mute point to ask what's faster. All the variables with the patched round ball come into play along with the powders burn rate.

Swiss is a "sporting grade powder" and has dominated the market in that respect for decades.
In just the last few years Goex has introduced Olde Eynsford as an American made sporting powder made specifically to compete with Swiss and all reviews have been that it has and does compare almost equally with Swiss.
That's it,, there is nothing else,, no further mystery.
My point is running out and buying "the fastest" burning powder isn't going to make a better shooter in and of itself until and unless the shooter has a grasp of all the variables involved.

 

[Zonie]

Speaking of running out and buying some of the "hot" powders, doing so puts the shooter back to square one.

Assuming he/she has found a good load combination with the powder they are using, they may find the "hot" powder they worked so hard to find causes their gun to shoot poorly.

They then will have to go thru the process of frinklng with the patch thickness, ball size and powder loads.

If accuracy is the main goal (as it should be), they may find they need to reduce the new "hot" powder load to regain the old accuracy.

That can put them right back where they started as far as velocity and power are concerned. :hmm:

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks guys. I am starting a project to replicate the original 50 grain loads for a Smith carbine cartridge case. Today's reproduction Smith cases only hold a maximum of about 35 grains of powder.

I am trying to get the 360 grain .50 bullet to a velocity of approx. 1000 FPS to replicate the original ballistics of the Civil War era carbine. I was hoping that with a hotter powder perhaps in 3FG instead of 2FG, I could get close to that number.

 

[mooman76]

If we had gotten all the details, we could see where you were going with this and maybe helped better right off. Anyway, good luck with your project. 3f should burn hotter being finer and you can get a slight larger amount in the case.

 

[Grenadier1758]

With respect to performance and maintaining a safe breech pressure, use a granulation no finer than 3fg Swiss or old Eynsford. As you develop your load, watch for signs of excess pressure. At some point in time you will want to back away from putting too much stress on your Smith Carbine.

 

[Onojutta]

What is the hottest, strongest real black powder (NOT substitute)that produces the highest velocities?

I have heard Swiss is hotter than most. Are there any other powders that shoot faster? Thanks!

Are you talking faster as in burns faster, or faster as in provides higher muzzle velocity?

Finding regular Goex is getting hard enough, I wouldn't know where to begin to find some of the others. I would wager that any slight advantage gained by a "faster" powder isn't going to affect shot placement noticeably for most of us, as there are too many other variables in play with this style of shooting. Have you mastered your breathing control and sight picture, is your lock exactly the same speed each and every time, is the wind always blowing exactly the same way with the same humidity, is each load packed exactly the same way in the barrel... you get the point.

Increasing muzzle velocity a few ft/s I doubt will offer much return on investment, especially if you have to travel further and spend more to get the powder. Best bet would be to master the the gun with the load that you have worked up with the powder that is most accessible to you.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Further research has shown that Swiss is in fact going to get me the highest velocities. With a full 35 grains of Swiss 3FG, I should be getting right near the same velocities as the original loads, which is what I'm going for.

 

[Onojutta]

Do you have access to a chronograph? It would be interesting to measure the results and find out how much of a difference, if any, there is.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

No but I plan to get one soon.

My whole goal is to replicate what an original Smith carbine cartridge would have done. I am going to use pre-made .515 360 reproduction bullets that are exactly like what the original rounds would have used. I also will use the black plastic cases available from Dixie Gun Works, as these are very similar in looks and feel to the original black rubber cases. With luck, a maximum load of 35 grains of Swiss 3Fg will yield approx. 1000 FPS-- the same ballistics as an original loaded with 50 grains of old fashioned rifle powder.

 

[sidelock]

Is the smith cartridge rifle a muzzleloader?

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Is the smith cartridge rifle a muzzleloader?

Oh crap! I've been found out! :redface:

Technically, it's a breechloader from the Civil War era. That's why I didn't want to come out and say it, in case "them kind ain't welcome round these parts!"

Sorry!

 

[Zonie]

Is the smith cartridge rifle a muzzleloader?

No. Not really.

This discussion is actually a bit over the top as far as rules are concerned.

Several years ago, Claude decided that even though the Smith, Sharps, Maynard and other rifles could be loaded from the muzzle they were basically cartridge guns which are outside the areas we can discuss on this forum.

Because of this, I am closing this topic to further discussion.