How Big ya need …to feel Safe?

[Bad Karma]

Not much a 58 Prb from my big boar won't stop. But with the right shot placement anything is possible

Big Boar will do its job. 120gr of 2F and a Large grain projectile.

If I was using a single barrel rifle for dangerous game .58 would be the minimum for a round ball rifle. Actually, scratch that. The minimum in a round ball would probably be .62 and I’d feel a lot better with a .69 in a ball shooter. With a bullet shooter I’d feel best with a .50 caliber shooting a 600 grain wide flat pointed 30 to 1 hardened bullet. At minimum I'd want it leaving the muzzle at least 1400 fps. If a double rifle such as yours the calculus changes slightly but not a lot. Lead balls don’t penetrate as well as a long and hardened bullet and for heavy critters like grizzly bears you’re going to want a loooong straight wound channel caused by a bullet not much or easily deviated by encounters with heavy muscle or bone.

 

[oldwood]

I have a friend that takes his wife and three youngsters hiking in the Wyoming out back. Both adults carry 12 Ga. pump action shotguns , w/ extra length mag. tubes. Can't remember how the 00 buck shot loads and rifled slugs are stacked in the mags. , . One parent walks ahead of the kids , while the other parent walks drag. My friend says that's the recommended bear protection for where they live. My friend says, they're so many Griz there , the schools had to put cyclone fence around the grade school to protect the kids at recess , and when the busses load and unload.

 

[Africa58double]

I have a friend that takes his wife and three youngsters hiking in the Wyoming out back. Both adults carry 12 Ga. pump action shotguns , w/ extra length mag. tubes. Can't remember how the 00 buck shot loads and rifled slugs are stacked in the mags. , . One parent walks ahead of the kids , while the other parent walks drag. My friend says that's the recommended bear protection for where they live. My friend says, they're so many Griz there , the schools had to put cyclone fence around the grade school to protect the kids at recess , and when the busses load and unload.

Why would you take your kids hiking in that environment? So foolish

 

[Bad Karma]

Why would you take your kids hiking in that environment? So foolish

Probably much safer than hiking to school in Baltimore and the scenery is much nicer… my risk assessment says I’d do much the same. And if I lived in grizzly country I bet I’d forgo the shotgun for most outdoor activities.

 

[Africa58double]

Here ya go, .50 conversation ROA

 

[Bad Karma]

Here ya go, .50 conversation ROA

Yeah, about the time I decided to pull the trigger on the conversion Clements announced the end of the conversion. Last time I saw one of those for sale it went for $3k…

 

[Africa58double]

Ya - they are neat, Yet not that neat.

 

[Africa58double]

Even if those 900 gr .58 Hollow points open up…. I believe they would keep on chugging through. That’s approximately 2 Oz of lead. A Tremendous momentum. Can’t imagine trajectory would be anything good. Maybe 20-40yards, Rite about Charging distance.

Keep one barrel loaded with that—
Other barrel with Elk Load .. Maybe Ball or REAL 445 gr.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Big Boar will do its job. 120gr of 2F and a Large grain projectile.

Val Forget, founder of Navy Arms, had Antonio Zoli make a 58 cal "Buffalo Hunter" in the early 1970's, IIRC. It had an extremely thick barrel & he loaded it with 200 grains of BP when testing for an African dangerous game load. He settled on 180 grains behind a 600 grain thick skirted Minie & shot Cape Buffalo, Lion, Hippo & even an Elephant. The Big Boar load wouldn't have the same "smack factor". Regular Minies don't hold up with that kind of powder load, so finding the right bullet "design" is crucial, more than just it's weight. Good luck on your hunt!

 

[Africa58double]

Certainly agree- Hence the Thread. I would prefer a non hollow point. Yet 900 grain hollow point ought to do it. My Double barrel can get up to 140g of 2F

 

[Africa58double]

I’ve got a guy who may make some 685gr for me. Solid tip, non hollow point. Perhaps he can cast them around 8Bhn like I do for my 445gr REAL bullets. I read about Val Forget and his endeavors… Very informative. I think 120gr and a solid conical of 650gr (Tc Big Bore) would accomplish penetrating a Grizzly to vitals. I’d prefer more weight and powder though

 

[waksupi]

I run into griz just going to the outhouse. Can't say as how I pay a lot of attention to the ones around home, we are used to each other. Out in the bush, I like my .62, but am under no misconception i have much luck of stopping a griz. They don't always understand that they are dead, and should be laying down. One of my buddies built a double flint ten bore. Now, that's a griz gun! Of course I had to shoot it.

 

[waksupi]

I have a friend that takes his wife and three youngsters hiking in the Wyoming out back. Both adults carry 12 Ga. pump action shotguns , w/ extra length mag. tubes. Can't remember how the 00 buck shot loads and rifled slugs are stacked in the mags. , . One parent walks ahead of the kids , while the other parent walks drag. My friend says that's the recommended bear protection for where they live. My friend says, they're so many Griz there , the schools had to put cyclone fence around the grade school to protect the kids at recess , and when the busses load and unload.

A few years back some newcomers were complaining about parents standing guard with guns at school bus stops in the morning. They were basically told to bugger off.

 

[deerstalkert]

i have a definate feeling that no matter how big the bullet and how much powder, someone will never feel safe in grizzly country. kinda like i can't feel safe in a city like LA.

 

[Africa58double]

That’s serious and compact

 

[cynthialee]

10 bore no longer than a short carbine

well it will clear the deck in short order

I'd be chicken to fire it if it was loaded up for bear

 

[Lonewalker]

Safe ??? Whatever Caliber makes ya "feel" safe is perfect. As for actually being safe , well there's many a slip between a cup and lip. Big animals don't always accept they been dead for awhile. Feeling safe cause of iron size ain't smart, I say carry the most RELIABLE of a suitable power range that ya are good and fast with, situational awareness is the crucial element though. I have no issue using .54 or .58 west of the Mississippi, usually just a fishing pole and an unmentionable on hip though.
I would ad until ya close enough to smell it ya can't really appreciate the size and speed , once ya do the whole discussion changes.

 

[Africa58double]

I agree , iron will not make you safe.., and awareness is imperative.

Yet we are discussing caliber and muzzleloader hunting.

Defense of Bruin is cautiously being prepared with the proper iron.

 

[Lonewalker]

I agree , iron will not make you safe.., and awareness is imperative.

Yet we are discussing caliber and muzzleloader hunting.

Defense of Bruin is cautiously being prepared with the proper iron.

Well then, since Montana was mentioned and elk mentioned .54 is more the adequate. Have not done Montana for anything except speed goats, but in Wyoming and New Mexico the .54 has served us well. I have a very nice 58 but it's a tad hefty and while I'm sure it's favorite 625gn maxi is stupendous not sure it would have changed any hunt we accomplished with the .54 and a prb. Enjoy and stay safe, drink water

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have had more run in's with black bears than anything else. I have had a couple young wolves come in after my dogs at times.
I hunt, camp, and recreate a fair amount in the Idaho/Wyoming border. There are a fair amount of grizzly's killed in self defense in the eastern border with Wyoming. In my Deer hunting areas and bear hunting areas there are no Grizz, but wolves are present. When my dogs are with me wolves are the biggest threat. I have had it happen twice with one wolf, then another wolf a couple years later.
I don't honestly worry about black bears. I was charged by one in a campground. Honestly I was lucky I didn't get it. While deer hunting I carry a 45 with a 408 paper patched RCBS 11mm rifle bullet. It is pushed by 80 gr of Pyrodex P. The bullet is hardened to 8 BHN. I honestly feel safe with the rifle in my deer hunting area. But if I were deer hunting in Eastern Idaho I would be carrying that same 45. I wouldn't carry different because of a chance with a grizz.

My son always has a 50 with a 458 Paper Patched lee 500 S&W bullet hardened to 6 to 7 BHN. It is pushed by 80 gr of pyrodex P.

When I am hunting elk it doesn't matter if I am in Northern Idaho or Southern, east or west. I always have a 50 that's the law, with the load above. I have seen How that bullet performs for over 12 years. How it plows through elk. I know what that load is capable of.
My Strategy for eastern Idaho is different than the Nevada border in one way. After the elk is on the ground. MAKE SURE TO LOAD THE RIFLE!!
If you read encounters on bear attacks in Eastern Idaho they are usually in September. While most of our ML hunts are later, I still make sure I have the gun loaded. On the Nevada border I don't worry about it. A lot of the attacks are either after the kill or the hunter is cow calling and the bear finds them.
While Idaho has a big black bear killed once in a while. The average size of our black bears is 150 pounds. My friend in Connecticut has bigger bears in his subdivision in town.
Other than my normal eastern Idaho keep a gun loaded I don't change up just for the rare chance of an encounter with a grizz.