How Clean is Clean?

[The Baron]

A question about cleaning my 12ga. muzzleloader. I use a nipple valve and flush hot soapy water through the barrel several times. Then I use BP solvent and patches about 2-4 passes. Next I bronze brush the barrel, and repeat the hot water / BP solvent thing. Then I run a few dry patches and start repeating 2-3 patches with BP solvent then 2-3 dry. This evening, after doing this latter repitition until I was too hungry to continue, I still have brownish residue on my dry patches. Am I done? I'm new to BP. Do these BP barrels ever get cleaner than this?

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you're getting residue you're not done. Are you using a relatively tight fitting jag? You can't clean a muzzleloader with a needle-eye style swab tip. It has to be a patch held up against the bore full diameter. I prefer bore mops (wool). A tight fit will draw the water up through the tube in your set-up so you can hold it a few seconds and then flush it back out to dissolve all the fouling.

A smoothbore should return a totally clear patch when it's clean. Five time easier than a rifle :imo:

 

[The Baron]

When I start the hot water flush, I use a bore mop to pull water up. For the first few passes, I pull the mop right back out and let the really nasty black water run out the muzzle. After the water isn't so black, I keep using the mop to pull water in and push back out through the tube.

For patches, I have a full diameter jag and use tight fitting cotton patches, wet with BP solvent.

So I guess my next Q is, are all BP solvents similar or is there a really good one I should have? The stuff I am using is a T/C brand, but I can't remember the product name. Someone bought it for me a long time ago (probably 5+ years), so maybe it's too old? That stuff's almost gone, and I'll be onto a big bottle of Birchwood Casey BP solvent.

How many repetition of wet/dry patch is typically needed after about 10 shots with FFg? I think I did about 5 rep's yesterday, after I finished the hot water and bronze brush stages.

 

[JackAubrey]

Hello Baron,You may wish to consider using hot soapy water.Place the barrel in a bucket of soapy water and do as you have been.Then remove the cones(nipples)and clean them and the flash channels w/ a pipecleaner.Not that this method will clean any better than the current method,but it won't clean worse and costs less.Three or four passes won't cut it either.Keep running patches till they come out clean.Rinse w/ very hot water and run drying patches.I have found even after the cleaning patches come out clean the first couple drying patches have a brown residue,almost rusty in appearance.I continue swabbing till these come clean then w/ the barrels still warm run a lubeded patch downbore a few times.Jack

 

[nit wit]

Baron:
I've started using Ballistol multi-purpose sportsmans oil. This has a mineral oil base and works real well. It dissolves blackpowder residues. Go to www.ballistol.com for more info.
Nit Wit :redthumb:

 

[The Baron]

I have found even after the cleaning patches come out clean the first couple drying patches have a brown residue,almost rusty in appearance.

Jack - that's exactly what they look like. So, sounds like more elbow grease needed.

 

[buckknife]

Im thinken the hot water is causing a flash rust,but it is still rust.Some would say its just a surface rust but it is also in the pores of the metal.If it were me and it has been i would scrub the heck out of it with a good quality centerfire bore cleaner till there is not even a slight trace of brown left.Dry patch it and apply a good quality centerfire bore lube.Before shooten again remove the lube with rubbing alkey and dry patch.
I use cold water after shooten,i pour cold water down the bore till it runs clean then use a bore mop in a bucket of cold soapy water,soap that dosnt contain phosphates,an oil soap works good.Then anuther flush of cold water,one dry patch then i plug the nipple and add maybe an ounce of rubben alkey and sloush it around in the bore,let if drain out the nipple then dry patch it dry and add a gun lube.Remove it before shooten again with rubben alkey.You will never see a brown patch again.
If your shooting a waxed base patch lube cold water may not work so good for you,take sum heat im thinken to get the wax to break lose,but i dont use wax based lubes :no:
That ballistal stuff works good i hear,sum day im gonna have to try it.

 

[Dave K]

I think a word of caution on placing a double barrels breeches in a bucket of water. If there is any chance for water to get between the barrels I really don't think you want water there. I place a rubber hose between the nipples and fill the barrels with water. I then use a brush(not stainless brush) to scrub the bores. I keep pouring the water out and replacing and scrubbing until the water is clean. Then I go to Ballistol and slop that down the bores. I use patches that are wet with Ballistol until clean. It doesn't take long at all!

 

[JackAubrey]

Hey NitWit,thanks for the Ballistol website! I have heard many people swear by this stuff.I have never used it yet since I did not know where to buy it.Thanks.Those are good points concerning water getting between the barrels,Hmmmm,maybe I need some Ballistol!I have been using T/C bore butter and T/C 1000 trying to season the barrels,as it were.

 

[CrackStock]

<<< A question about cleaning my 12ga. muzzleloader. I use a nipple valve and flush hot soapy water through the barrel several times. Then I use BP solvent and patches about 2-4 passes. Next I bronze brush the barrel, and repeat the hot water / BP solvent thing. Then I run a few dry patches and start repeating 2-3 patches with BP solvent then 2-3 dry. This evening, after doing this latter repitition until I was too hungry to continue, I still have brownish residue on my dry patches. Am I done? I'm new to BP. Do these BP barrels ever get cleaner than this? >>>



Baron,

In your description, I see a lot of cleaning and solvents, but no protective coating. This is followed by the finding of rust after some time. Do you own a bore light? You might want to look down the barrel to see what is going on here. If you are getting brown this late it is either rust coming from pits or you are leaving bronze residue which you are finding later. I would try it without the bronze brush.

Also be aware that some types of dried bore butter look a bit like rust.

Why are you using hot water? Try it with cold water, no soap and just use a few dry patches to dry the bore. Some use a bit of alcohol to dry quicker, but I wipe the bore and then let it stand for a bit and then use some preservative.

Also, you will find some gray out of a bore from the graphite that is used to coat powder to make it flow smoother. This is hard to finally remove, but the good news is that it is not harmful to your bore.

CS

 

[roundball]

A question about cleaning my 12ga. muzzleloader. I use a nipple valve and flush hot soapy water through the barrel several times. Then I use BP solvent and patches about 2-4 passes. Next I bronze brush the barrel, and repeat the hot water / BP solvent thing. Then I run a few dry patches and start repeating 2-3 patches with BP solvent then 2-3 dry. This evening, after doing this latter repitition until I was too hungry to continue, I still have brownish residue on my dry patches. Am I done? I'm new to BP. Do these BP barrels ever get cleaner than this?

Using hot soapy water, patches & bronze bore brush has certainly worked perfectly for me for about 15 years so that's not causing the problem...UNLESS...you're not getting it dry fast enough and are experiencing the "flash rust" mentioned earlier.

However, I thought I'd raise a question about the "BP solvent" you mentioned..."ordinarily"...one uses a hot soapy water regimen...or a BP solvent regimen...but usually don't use both approaches together....makes me wonder if the "BP solvent" you're using is creating a color on the patches by itself??

For example, I don't care how clean I get any rifle, shotgun, or muzzleloader barrel I've owned for years, if I then run a patch downbore soaked with a GI bore cleaner I have, or with WD40, it always seems to come back out with some color on it (not rust color, but gray or dark, etc)...but a plain oiled patch comes back out as clean as it went in.

The bores are in perfect showroom condition after all these years so it's a color that's apparently not indicative of a problem...just wondering if you're chasing your tail by looking for white patches after using the BP solvent you mentioned and really may not have a problem at all.
:m2c:

 

[Rat]

Baron, Hoppe's #9+ BP solvent is the best I've found, but I don't know if it would work in conjunction with the rubber ducky treatment. I just use it, then Kroil, then oil, and no water-washing.

Rat

 

[The Baron]

I went back at my barrel with a cleaner called RB-17. I have had it for some time - a throwback from when I handloaded and shot a ton of rifle. This stuff is a greenish gel and works on everything (plastic lead, copper, BP, rust, etc). So, I used it and a bronze brush to scrub the barrel, flush with hot water then alternate with patches. After 3 reps of scrubbing, I switched back to patches with just BP solvent, more patches, etc... I got it looking pretty good - only a slight bit of brownish/grey on the white patches. Then I used Shooters Choice G96 gun cleaner/treatment which is like a combo mild cleaner/lubricant. I made sure the bore was well wiped with this and also wadded some cotton on the end of the rod and cleaned the grime from the breech face. It may be that the previous owner didn't clean it good enough the last time out, and I had to clean out not only my own stuff but some caked on grime. So, after cleaning for about an hour, three nights in a row, I finally deemed it clean and put it away. I sure hope it doesn't take that much effort each time!

 

:winking:Have read all the post to date and find it interesting that there are so many ways for cleaning. Well I just can not stop myself from adding some thoughs on a product that is used in the enviromental business. The product is a surfactant, soap base, that is water base and is used to clean Hydrocarbons, Fats, Oils & Greases (FOG's)
The product is water base, NO SOLVENTS. The product is USEPA NCP Product Schedule. I have been using this product with hot water and boy you talk about CLEAN! Also when done down the drain. The product is called Enviro Clean 165. More information can be had by E-mail at [email protected]

 

[roundball]

I went back at my barrel with a cleaner called RB-17. I have had it for some time - a throwback from when I handloaded and shot a ton of rifle. This stuff is a greenish gel and works on everything (plastic lead, copper, BP, rust, etc). So, I used it and a bronze brush to scrub the barrel, flush with hot water then alternate with patches. After 3 reps of scrubbing, I switched back to patches with just BP solvent, more patches, etc... I got it looking pretty good - only a slight bit of brownish/grey on the white patches. Then I used Shooters Choice G96 gun cleaner/treatment which is like a combo mild cleaner/lubricant. I made sure the bore was well wiped with this and also wadded some cotton on the end of the rod and cleaned the grime from the breech face. It may be that the previous owner didn't clean it good enough the last time out, and I had to clean out not only my own stuff but some caked on grime. So, after cleaning for about an hour, three nights in a row, I finally deemed it clean and put it away. I sure hope it doesn't take that much effort each time!

Didn't realize it was a previously owned gun...no telling what had een used in that bore before you got it...every used barrel I've bought has been a chore to get 100% clean...I've had to use a BP Cleaning Gel made by Shooter's Choice on a couple...one in particular there were black streaks in the grooves that were like tar...a brush didn't even faze them...it took the gel chemicals to dissolve it...once I got them back to bare raw metal like they left the factory, hot soapy water keeps them like new.

PS: It would not be a bad idea to check-wipe the bore every couple days to see if anything else has "bloomed" out of the metal...then relube