how do ya load

[Praridog]

one of them little Philly derringers in percussion???

 

[Zonie]

Very carefully. :rotf:
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The gun is made for shooting .440 diameter balls patched with a fairly thin cotton patch.
These guns were intended for very short range work so they don't have to be tightly patched so something like a .010 thick patch should be enough. Mine uses a #11 percussion cap.

The powder load should be around 15 grains of 3Fg black powder (or synthetic black powder like Pyrodex P).
While that doesn't sound like much the little gun with its small grip will give the shooter quite a jolt when it goes off. 15 grains of powder is also enough to put a serious hurt on a potential bad guy and that is about all the gun was intended to do.

It will shoot 2Fg powder (or Pyrodex RS) if that is all you have.
Using this courser powder will produce a little less velocity but I doubt that you will notice the difference.

Have fun.

 

[Praridog]

Thank you sir..Guess i better get a short starter..

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remember that these small, short barreled guns were intended to intimidate, more than kill. At more than card-table distances, you probably would miss a man.

And remember that this gun was " Fashionable" at a time when NO Antibiotics existed- NONE! People died slow lingering deaths over days and weeks, due to infection and blood poisoning, who, if shot with one of these today, would be leaving the hospital in a couple of days at the most.

EVERYONE knew the kind of death someone faced, if shot with one of these Dirty LITTLE pistols, where pocket lint got into the barrel, and would be driven ahead of the ball and patch into the wound. There were reported instances where experienced Gunfighters were more afraid of being shot with one of these guns than with a standard size Colt or Remington in .36 or .44 caliber. Only the Shotgun, of any gauge, was more feared than these small deringers in any sporting house.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Remember that these small, short barreled guns were intended to intimidate, more than kill. At more than card-table distances, you probably would miss a man.

And remember that this gun was " Fashionable" at a time when NO Antibiotics existed- NONE! People died slow lingering deaths over days and weeks, due to infection and blood poisoning, who, if shot with one of these today, would be leaving the hospital in a couple of days at the most.

EVERYONE knew the kind of death someone faced, if shot with one of these Dirty LITTLE pistols, where pocket lint got into the barrel, and would be driven ahead of the ball and patch into the wound. There were reported instances where experienced Gunfighters were more afraid of being shot with one of these guns than with a standard size Colt or Remington in .36 or .44 caliber. Only the Shotgun, of any gauge, was more feared than these small deringers in any sporting house.

:bull: Oh boy, that's a good one. :haha: Be interesting to see some documentation on this whopper. :wink: :grin:

 

[Frank/Pa]

Remember that these small, short barreled guns were intended to intimidate, more than kill. At more than card-table distances, you probably would miss a man.

And remember that this gun was " Fashionable" at a time when NO Antibiotics existed- NONE! People died slow lingering deaths over days and weeks, due to infection and blood poisoning, who, if shot with one of these today, would be leaving the hospital in a couple of days at the most.

EVERYONE knew the kind of death someone faced, if shot with one of these Dirty LITTLE pistols, where pocket lint got into the barrel, and would be driven ahead of the ball and patch into the wound. There were reported instances where experienced Gunfighters were more afraid of being shot with one of these guns than with a standard size Colt or Remington in .36 or .44 caliber. Only the Shotgun, of any gauge, was more feared than these small deringers in any sporting house.

:bull: Oh boy, that's a good one. :haha: Be interesting to see some documentation on this whopper. :wink: :grin:

WOW :shocked2: To put this in perspective using modern pistols, I guess that would make the 25 Automatic a most fearsome weapon when compared to a 1911 45 automatic, because the 25 is often carried in the pocket.

 

[Zonie]

Pauls comments about people dieing slow lingering deaths isn't without merit. Gangrene and blood poisoning was quite common as was tetanus.

I don't know that people were terribly afraid of pocket lint but the thought of being shot with anything, even the little short barreled pocket or muffler pistol has long been a deterrent to crime and card cheats. In those days, yes, the related illnesses were thought about a great deal more than folks think of it today.

 

[mykeal]

There are many good references to the septic effects of gunshot wounds in the years before we found antibiotics. One especially good one is the Paul O'Brian series of naval history novels, which are generally considered to be exceptionally accurate with respect to the actual attitudes and practices in the early 19th century; the ship's doctor describes the result of leaving traces of the fabric from a sailor's filthy tunic in a round ball wound a number of times. The sailors were generally aware of the results (infection, pain and a slow death) of being shot, although they certainly didn't know the details. Horatio Lord Nelson knew that his wound was fatal and that it would take several days to die from infection within moments of being struck, before any doctor had examined him.

 

[Poor Private]

Getting off the subject and joining in the new one, read several medical personal journals of surgeons/doctors from the civil war. One good one is "Three Years in the Sixth Corps" By George T. Stevens. even the long rifled musket(.58cal) would drive wool, and other clothing into the bodies of our civil war soldiers creating the same effects.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm fully aware of the short comings of 19th century medicine, but I believe there to have been little fear of pocket lint. :rotf: It's also some what difficult to believe that a deringer ball is somehow dirtier than any other ball of the era. The filthy clothes of the victim being carried into the wound was probably the largest source of infection.
Paul's stories can be entertaining...he should become a dime novel writer. :haha:

 

[fyrfyter43]

I find it hard to believe that pocket lint from the shooter's pocket would be carried into the wound. I just don't see loose particles adhering to a ball...even one moving as slow as a couple hundred fps. Now if they were embedded into the lead, then it is a possibility. But a seated ball would have little chance of having pocket lint embedded into it while the derringer is carried in a pocket.

On the other hand, I definitely believe that particles of the victim's clothing would be carried into the wound and often cause infection.

 

[cmdrted]

As a practicing ER physician I can attest to modern 20/21st century wounds. Almost simultaneously with bleeding control we administer massive doses of antibiotics and tetanus prevention. even modern "sterile" surgical wounds get infected sometimes. Back then it must've been horrifying to get a more than skin deep puncture. Even simple things like pneumonia killed folks back then, today 4.00 worth of antibiotics kills the most stubborn of organisms.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Lint collects in the short barrels, on the lead balls when there is any grease present, and on the lubed patch that usually surrounds the lead ball in these ML deringers. The powder charges were small- even for those days, so that people KNEW that the ball would not penetrate deeply, or pass on through a body. It was going to stay in the body.

At card table range, yes, even a .25 acp should be feared- particularly if its loaded with lead, outside lubricated bullets( the old " Lubaloy" type). The .25, like most .22s are notorious for bouncing around the body rather than following a straight path. Even the .32 will bend and turn if it strikes bone. I witnessed a man who had been shot in the neck with a .32 auto. The bullet nicked his collar on the right side of his spine, going in, then turned and made a horse path around the vertebrae, under the skin, and exited the skin Directly opposite the entrance wound, nicking the collar on the left side. YOu could see the wound bath under his skin. He was bleeding from both entrance and exit wounds, but was refusing medical treatment at the time I talked to him. The next day, when he sobered up, his sister did get him to go to the E.R., where they treated the wounds, closed them, and I am sure gave him anti-biotics.

As to attitudes of gunfighters and gamblers about being shot with these small guns, There are references in " Sixguns" by Elmer Keith, and in "Gunfighters" by Askins. I have not checked my books by other authors.

Finally, a distant ancestor of mine, Clement L. Vallandigham, of Dayton, Ohio, died as a result of an accidental, self-inflicted gunshot would with a small pistol, dying in agony almost a day later from infections that set in. This was back in 1872. He was a lawyer, defending a man charged with murder, that arose out of a dispute over a card game. He had two guns that were the same make and model, and was using one to do ballistics test on a dresser's manikin. He put the two guns on the mantle of the fireplace in his hotel room, one unloaded and the other loaded( for no explained reason), and in demonstrating his defense, picked up the wrong gun. The wound that killed CLV was almost identical to that of the man who was killed in the gambling dispute.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Well that does it for me then, I'm collecting pocket lint and putting it on the bullets of all of my concealed carry ammo. :thumbsup: Dangerous stuff, that pocket lint.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've been coating my rifle and fowler balls with pocket lint for years. That way if I just nick a deer they die of fright!

I have signs in all the windows of my home that read: Burglars and other low lifes beware! This property protected by pocket lint coated ammunition! It must work since we've never been robbed! :rotf: :surrender:

 

[roundball]

Timing is everything...I NEVER look into the pistol section because:
A) I didn't have any interest in ML pistols;
B) Having no actual first hand experience with ML pistols I knew I had nothing valid to offer;

So here I am...bored to tears and I finally decide to poke around into the pistol forum in hopes of learning some interesting new facts...and I find "pocket lint" being touted as some sort of dire killing mechanism that made men more fearful of getting shot with a derringer than say a .44cal Remington ???????????


What planet am I on?????? There just seems to be no end to this stuff.....

 

[mykeal]

Neverneverland. The place where the children ignore the serious, accurate and honest information so they can sit in the corner and giggle while they point fingers and make jokes about one part.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not since 1939, Mike. Thank your lucky stars you live in an age when we have a variety of effective anti-biotics to treat gunshot wounds. I know that I do. The cartridge deringers of today fire bullets at a much faster velocity than the short barreled pocket pistols did using BP and PRB. Penetration of those old .41 deringers, was pretty poor, when fired through clothing.

The wound to President Lincoln was fairly representative of the weak power of the guns. The ball entered the back of his skull- slightly to the right of the midline of the brain, crossed into the left hemisphere of his brain, and stopped above his Left EYE. With today's medicine, he might have survived, but surely would have lost most of the function of the left side of his brain, and his left eye. There is current medical speculation that the accounts of his doctors exploring the wound with their little fingers, probably advanced the time of his death by many hours, and may have done as much damage to the President as the ball originally did. In addition to their fingers, reports indicate they used metal Probes to search for the ball, also. Without modern Diagostic tools to locate the primary wound channel, and the location of the ball, This kind of medical care- considered malpractice today, would be the best to be expected. Now, before you question the fear people had of being shot with these small guns, think about what that kind of medical treatment would be if the wound was to your stomach.

The faster velocity of todays bullets, and the fact that they may be metal jacketed reduces the likelihood that lint, and other bacteria laden foreign materials would "stick " to the bullet after the gun is fired. You still have fabric and microscopic thread pieces driven into the wound from the clothing the victim is wearing- and much after care is taken to get these things out of the victims body and wound channels, in order to prevent Peritonitis, an aggressive and deadly infection of the peritoneal cavity.( The area above your hip bones, and below the Diaphragm, that contains your intestines, liver, kidneys, Spleen, etc. )

The deeper penetration of the bullet will be of more concern, in that it can destroy more organs, than the old guns would. The current availability of anti-biotics is saving more GSW victims than ever before in the history of warfare, and civilians shootings. Paul

 

[Mike Brooks]

The faster velocity of todays bullets, and the fact that they may be metal jacketed reduces the likelihood that lint, and other bacteria laden foreign materials would "stick " to the bullet after the gun is fired

Well darn, how am I going to get the bad guys to fear me with my .25 colt pocket pistol? I don't want the bad guys scoffing at my gunfightin' gun.:shocked2:
I guess I'll just have to make a percussion derringer, then all the bad guys will either run away in fear or surrender on the spot. Do you think if I load the derringer then stuff the barrel all the way to the end with pocket lint they will fear me even more? Is there any difference in lethality of the lint between your front pockets or your back pockets? How about a vest pocket, is it particularly nasty? I'm thinking maybe belly button or toe fuzz might just strike the most fear, I know just thinking about that stuff makes me weak in the knees....

 

[Dphar]

The faster velocity of todays bullets, and the fact that they may be metal jacketed reduces the likelihood that lint, and other bacteria laden foreign materials would "stick " to the bullet after the gun is fired

Well darn, how am I going to get the bad guys to fear me with my .25 colt pocket pistol? I don't want the bad guys scoffing at my gunfightin' gun.:shocked2:
I guess I'll just have to make a percussion derringer, then all the bad guys will either run away in fear or surrender on the spot. Do you think if I load the derringer then stuff the barrel all the way to the end with pocket lint they will fear me even more? Is there any difference in lethality of the lint between your front pockets or your back pockets? How about a vest pocket, is it particularly nasty? I'm thinking maybe belly button or toe fuzz might just strike the most fear, I know just thinking about that stuff makes me weak in the knees....

:thumbsup:
Shoot hollowpoints they often carry parts of the recipients clothing into the wound. Just as good as pocket lint if not recently laundered. Best of both worlds. But if you put the lead in properly and in sufficient quantity they will likely not survive to die of infection anyway.
P.S. Soft lead RBs would do the same thing in many cases making pocket lint superfluous.
:grin: :grin: