how do you lighten springs?

[thecapgunkid]

I posted elsewhere about customizing a Pedersoli Jager, part of the process being that the lock needed a little tuning because it came down like John Hardy's hammer and there was a wear streak that described an arc where a small *** on the inside of the frizzen rubbed the barrel.

Fixed that last part.

Polished some of the parts internally after watching Hershel House, a couple of other videos and a post or two here and in ALR.

Took some metal a little bit at a time off the edges and bevels of the main and frizzen spring and lightened the action some, and then lost my nerve. I don't know how to measure progress and judge how far is too far.

It is still stiff, sparks OK, but there is room to make the action a little lighter and improve the spark.

You guys can envision the nightmare...right? New gun on the trail walk holding everybody up in spite of the fact that you can swear you shot it at the range...

Outside of..."leave it alone"...or..."bring it to an expert"...(which are options) I want to get it to that point where the scraping of the flint is a little gentler and the thunk is turned into that bouncy action a good lock has and will take a few risks because I now know where to get parts.

Procedural Advice or references would be welcome.

Thanks

 

[LRB]

That could involve a change in **** and frizzen geometry more than in lighter springs. But, the only way to lighten a spring is to reduce it's thickness. Tread lightly, you can't put metal back once removed. If you are removing steel, do a little at a time, then check your progress. It is easy to remove too much.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I would listen to Wick about weakening a spring. Notice his first sentence. It may be more a geometry problem than strong springs, striking angles,etc.

Last, I would add that the fastest locks I have ever timed were late English locks that had very strong springs.

If lock geometry is good, strong springs are a plus - my opinion. That and 50 cents won't buy a Coke anymore.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, guys. At the half ****, the edge of the flint is about 2/3 way up the frizzen face. I don't even know what the elements of geometry on a lock are supposed to be.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Thanks, guys. At the half ****, the edge of the flint is about 2/3 way up the frizzen face. I don't even know what the elements of geometry on a lock are supposed to be.

Greg, if you get the flint to hit the frizzen at a 55° to 60° angle, then the geometry is right. Even if the geometry of the lock makes that difficult you can fiddle with the flint placement (bevel up or bevel down, move it forward or back) to get it to strike the frizzen with that slicing motion.

The old TC locks had terrible geometry and they eventually changed it to the style that they last made, which worked well. So check the angle of your flint as it hits the frizzen (easy to do by just lowering the **** slowly with your thumb until the flint contacts the frizzen).

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well, I wish you'd looked hard at the frizzen and the **** angle before you messed with the springs. Oh well what's-a-done-is-a-done. :idunno:

Check your cam on the bottom of your frizzen where it contacts the frizzen spring. I've seen many more of these cams that can do with a little polishing with a "finishing" stone from a knife sharpening kit than needed to have the frizzen spring or main spring worked on. Polishing the sides of the frizen where the frizzen screw goes through is also a good idea.


LD

 

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, Dave. I should have mentioned that I did all the polishing first.

After reading these posts, It looks like I'll opt to let the lock break in and wear before I do anything else.

 

[M. De Land]

One of the things I learned while over hauling a lock I have on a target pistol is that the frizzen spring tail can be altered in shape to some what effect how the frizzen reacts to it.
You can advance or ****** the frizzen cam over a bit by the angle you bend into the tail before re-hardening.
I had to redo mine three times to get it right.
The **** also had to be heated up and bent downward a few degrees to make it hit the Frizzen correctly.
My thinking at this point in the learning curve is that the arc of the **** swing at the flint edge should be bit larger than the arch of the frizzen face so as to maintain contact pressure as long and evenly as possible before the frizzen cams over and away.

 

[M. De Land]

I concur with Wick and Pletch about Geometry but to answer your question there are a couple of things that can be done to a spring to lesson it's power.
As has already been said you can thin them both in thickness and width. This must be done on an even taper so as to even the flex load or the spring won't last very long.
Another thing that can be done is to anneal and change the profile adding or subtracting bend arch.
Adding a stirrup can totally change the power and character of a flat or V spring along with making it far more smooth in operation.
Heat treating spring stock is not difficult or magic once one has had a bit of instruction and some experience.
It is within the mechanical grasp of all most any one willing to put forth a bit of effort and is most worth while in making and keeping these guns working correctly.

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . the lock needed a little tuning because it came down like John Hardy's hammer . . .

John Hardy? John Henry! Died with a hammer in his hand.

Width & carefully. Grind too aggressively and you overheat it and screw up the temper.

 

[Grumpa]

John Hardy? John Henry! Died with a hammer in his hand.

"John Hardy was a desperate little man/carried two guns every day/shot down a man in the West Virginia land"...and died at the end of a rope.

 

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, fellas, but they wrote the bluegrass song about John Hardy. Took me a month on the 5 string to learn it.

 

[Many Klatch]

Before you mess too much more with the spring. Get a spare. If you get the old spring just right then you will have a spare. If you break the spring while messing with it you will have a replacement. Springs can be hard to find. Best get the spare before you go much further.