HOW FAR....

[faw3]

Im kind of new at smoothbore shooting , have underhammer 1X36 62 cal, I got from Lonh Ham , Im wondering how many different kinds of ?chokes? you can put on one of these. And what kind of shooting should I be getting, I ask him to make it for ball and shot.. so far it shoots a dand tight pat at 20 yds and the balls 600 kind of lose and 610 really tight to load have been right on target, Ive read about at 100 it should do this ,then it should do that, anything to picking a right "choke" or none at all? Fred :hatsoff:

 

Not trying to be an "ass", but chokes/choke tubes are not traditional items on MLers and I am not sure that such topics are appropriate here--at any rate most of us would not have them or experience with them on Mlers. I am sure that chokes were experimented with early on, but did not come into widespread use until late 19th cent. Perhaps this topic should be in the non-MLing heading (even though you are referring to a ML). On the other hand, maybe someone knows what you are talking about and can help you. In general, I don't think any choke is wanted for round ball shooting from a smoothbore, and we all suffer from lack of choke with bird shot in our smoothies.

 

[roundball]

I assumed he was referring to a "jug choke", not an add-on mechanical choke ...trying to decide how much choke to tell the gunsmith to put in via the jug choke activity...maybe I misunderstood.

FW, if you are referring to a jug choke, I had my .62cal S/B jug choked 'Full' for a turkey barrel...throws an outstanding dense pattern of #6s at 40yds.

But mine won't shoot round balls accurately enough to suit me...so if you must have both capabilities, jug choking may not be the best way to go.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

""

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Not trying to be an "ass", but chokes/choke tubes are not traditional items on MLers and I am not sure that such topics are appropriate here--at any rate most of us would not have them or experience with them on Mlers. I am sure that chokes were experimented with early on, but did not come into widespread use until late 19th cent. Perhaps this topic should be in the non-MLing heading (even though you are referring to a ML). On the other hand, maybe someone knows what you are talking about and can help you. In general, I don't think any choke is wanted for round ball shooting from a smoothbore, and we all suffer from lack of choke with bird shot in our smoothies.

Ditto, it was not until the very end of the muzzleloader era the choke came into being.

The eternal scattergun debate, who invented the choke bore, (late 1860's) Fred Kimble, (American) or W. R. Pape (Englishman) about the same time?

Fred Kimble

In 1868 he invented the choke-bore shotgun barrel that would revolutionize the art of wing shooting. This is how he explained the greatest of barrel inventions to Jimmy.

"I started experimenting in the gun shop of Charlie Stock in Peoria, Ill. First, I used musket barrels left over from the Civil War, as they were heavy and would stand boring. After repeated attempts am calipering, I came up with a 6-bore (some have said it was a 9-bore) that would drop birds at 80 yards. This gun would shoot #3 shot through a one-inch board at 40 yards."

With his 6-bore, 36-inch barrel muzzle loader, Kimble began challenging anyone and everyone at live pigeons.
[url] http://www.traphof.org/roadtoyesterday/may2001.htm[/url]

 

[arcticap]

You can read about "choke" in this article under "Pattern and Choke":
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun[/url]

A choked bore's constriction (or dimension) helps to control the percentage of shotload that will hit a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.

Is your smoothbore barrel already internally threaded for removable choke tubes or are you asking about how to obtain "choke-like performance" from your muzzle loading smoothbore in the general sense?

 

[faw3]

Thanks roundball I was. This barrel is great at shooting shot, a bit pooor at at a ball, the "Qu?" should of been whats the range for different types of smooth barrels ( we dont need no stinking chokes hanging on them) and is there more than one kind of barrel.maybe thats a bit more clear, Should you keep 5 600 or 610 balls in a 5" box at 50 yards how about 75? Thank much Fred :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Fred: I am sure that Roundball can speak to smooties with Jug Chokes. With a smootbore that has no choke, the range you use your gun is dependent on the pattern delivered at a given distance, the size of shot used, and the size of bird being hunted. Dove don't take much to kill because they are so small. Most hunters will use #7 1/2, #8, or even #9 shot for dove. Ranges with an open cylinder gun are best kept to 25 yds. and under. A pheasant is a much larger bird to kill, and requires more hits, or a hit with a larger pellet. Use #4,#5,#6, and even #7 1/2 shot for hunting pheasants, and with the larger shot, you can kill the birds out to 30 yds with that open cylinder, and cripple them to bring them down at 35 yds. The same loads, using non-toxic shot, can be used at those distances on duck. On Geese, which can be much larger, you want to use non-toxic shot that ranges from steel BB,( .18 diameter, and not the .177 pellets used in air rifles. The two pellets are made of different metals, and the harder, smaller air rifle pellets will ruin your barrel of your smoothbore!)"T", #1, # 2, and even #3, if you can find it. Again, ranges are limited to 30 yds with that open cylinder. You can tighten the patterns some by using the Ballistics Products shot sleeve, made of plastic, and with lead shot, using the modern plastic shot cup often tightens the groups some. Many traditional hunters are not interested in shooting anything that involves plastic, and I am assuming you are one.

The only other way to tighten patterns is to make shot tubes from paper, or coin wrappers. Make sure to cut slits in the front of the tube to help it open up, just like the modern plastic shotcups have slits, varying from 4 to 8 typically, depending on how fast they want the shot released. How much tighter can you get those patterns with a paper shotcup? I am still fooling around with it, so I haven't found a definitive answer, but so far, I found one combination that seems to give me 50% patterns with an open cylinder gun. That's not bad, and extends my killing range from 30 to 35 yds. Since I rarely hit much less kill a bird beyond 35 yards, even with my modern choked guns, I am enthusiastic with my finds. I need to find out if this is just a fluke, or if these home made shotcups deliver that same kind of pattern time after time. That just requires shooting lots of patterns with each load, and a stack of Newsprint to record each pattern. Its been too hot up until now to spend the kind of time at the range to do this length kind of testing, but its been cooling down, and I may be able to get out and do it yet this Fall.

Read the material on Bob Spenser's site, particular the articles by V.M. Starr, who was truly the expert on Jug chokes, and patterns for BP Shotguns. Until there is some change in the air, or gravity on this planet, the research and results he found in his lifetime of work will stay valid, and there is really no point in trying to re-invent the wheel, or do this kind of research all over again.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Fred: My limited experience shooting .600 diameter round ball in my 20 ga. Fowler, with no choke, shows it will put three balls touching at 50 yds, if I do my part. A 2 inch group is not hard to shoot at that range. At 75 yds, the group opens to about 5 inches. At 100 yds, its up to about 8 inches. However, my gunmaker has shot groups at 100 yds, from the bench, that stay inside 3 inches even at that range. I am still working on patch and ball combinantions, as well as loads and lubes to see if I can tighten my groups up. Craig( my gunmaker) says the secret is not to try to load up the powder charges, as that ball comes down through the sound barrier between 70 and 85 yds regardless of how fast you push the ball out the muzzle. So, I am going to be trying to shoot at the long range with a powder charge that keeps the velocity at the muzzle under the speed of sound, (1100 fps) to see how much a difference it will make. I know it has to make my shoulder feel better, as i have tried the slower loads already shooting shot. The deer I have been able to see clear enough to get a shot in the river bottoms I hunt have all been within 50 yds, so I am not that much worried about how this smoothie shoots at 100 yds. Its nice to know, and practicing at that range, off-hand will improve my off-hand shooting at 50 yds., so I will do it, but there is too much brush, too many trees, and so few straight paths in the bottoms for me to realistically hope to get a shot at much beyond 50 yds. If I were hunting Winter Wheat fields, I would probably have to leave the fowler home, and use my .50 cal. rifle.

 

[faw3]

Thanks for all the info , it helps a lot. my first and second try was to tell him "make it so it will shoot balls best and shot also. the 2nd we went a bit more to shot barrel, I guess your right about I should use the rifled 62 and give up on a "best of both worlds" barrel" just had to try and ask too.Thanks again, Fred :hatsoff: