How much powder did they carry?

[Gene L]

How much powder did the average frontiersman carried. I don't necessarily men how much could he carry, but from a practical standpoint. At 70 grains (average?) a shot, a pound of powder would give 100 shots...but that's a lot of shooting. No one in modern times carries 100 rounds of ammo that I know of. And that's well beyond my horn's capacity. (Maybe 3/4 pound? Or less.)

Of course, being prepared a long hunter would likely re-up whenever possible, but there are several historical instances where guys ran out of powder in battle. The one I'm referring to is an account of the AWI where a girl in a siege ran to a powder house and carried powder to the Americans in her apron. Nothing was said about a shortage of lead.

So I wonder in this rambling, incoherent post. I doubt anyone can answer this question, but still, I wonder. I doubt any one carried enough bullets to correspond to the load capability of a pound or even a half-pound of powder, but what do I know?

 

[Artificer]

Well..... you mentioned frontiersmen, then Long Hunters, then military usage for how much powder and ball was carried. So the answers for each would most likely have been different.

First, Virginia Militia Acts/Laws will tell us what was expected of a Militia Man in Virginia, though each Colony's Laws might have or did vary.

Virginia Militia Act of 1738

“V. ”¦Every horse-man shall be furnished with a serviceable horse, a good saddle,”¦ carbine or fusee, and bucket, holsters, a case of pistols, cutting sword or cutlass, double cartouch box, and six charges of powder”¦And every footman [as opposed to horse-man] shall be furnished with a firelock, musket, or fuzee, well fixed [in good order], a bayonet fitted to same, or a cutting sword or cutlass, a cartouch-box, and three cartridges of powder; and appear with the same at the time and place appointed for muster and exercise, as foresaid; and shall also keep at his house, one pound of powder, and four pounds of ball; and bring the same into the field, when he shall be required”¦.”

Virginia 1755, 1757 and 1762 Militia Laws/Acts
Same requirements for “footmen” as in 1738.

U.S. Militia Act of 1792
“That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder”

More in my next post.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

As far as the average frontiersman, it probably depended on what he was hunting. More balls for squirrel hunting and perhaps/maybe less when hunting larger game.

The few remaining 18th century original Shot Pouches (what we would call a Hunting Pouch) were fairly small but could have carried as many balls as the average Frontiersman would have needed on a day's hunt. If he was going out for a longer hunt for game; he probably took more balls in a wallet, snap sack, pack, etc.

As far as I know, we don't know if Long Hunters carried larger Shot Pouches and more balls in case they got separated from the horses or other men in their party, though to me that seems likely from a survival standpoint. Of course if they got attacked by Hostile NA's or other European Colonists, they might have carried more balls in case they had to make a run for it with just the Shot Pouch, Horn and Rifle/Gun. The problem is, and as far as I know, we don't have even one example of an original Shot Pouch that was carried by a Long Hunter on a Long Hunt.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Though we do have accounts of longhunters shooting several deer in one day. We also have at least one account of a longhunter who, down to his last ball and cut off from his camp or lost, recovered his last ball, and chewed it round again, so he had at least one shot for his rifle. So he wasn't using so much powder the ball exited the animal, nor did it deform so much that he was prevented from returning it to sorta "ball" shape.

In keeping with the references provided by Gus, above:

"Be it Enacted By the Lord proprietarie of this province by and with the advice and assent of the Freemen of the same

that every house keeper or housekeepers within this Province shall have ready continually upon all occasions within his her or their house for him or themselves and for every person within his her or their house able to bear armes

one Serviceable fixed gunne of bastard muskett boare one pair of bandoleers or shott bagg one pound of good powder foure pound of pistol or muskett shott and Sufficient quantity of match for match locks and of flints for firelocks...," 1638
Archives of Maryland Online

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

chewed it round again, so he had at least one shot for his rifle. So he wasn't using so much powder the ball exited the animal

Indeed. There are many accounts of only 'half' loads being used to conserve powder. The term "frontiersman" can cover a lot of activities from settlers, to surveyors, trappers, meat hunters, etc. and more. I believe a small (what we would call a 'day') horn was probably all they took afield. I'm sure we shoot a lot more than was done back in the day.

 

[Gene L]

All Long hunters were frontiersmen, but not all frontiersmen were long hunters. I would think a "day horn" would be practical when you knew you were going to be out for a day, but I suspect those small day horns were a result of civilization and casual hunters who knew they were within walking distance of their big horns.

I don't know about the usage of these small horns historically as day horns. I mean, Why?

 

[jfaldo]

The one I'm referring to is an account of the AWI where a girl in a siege ran to a powder house and carried powder to the Americans in her apron.

You referring to this story?

Betty Zane volunteered for the dangerous task. During her departing run, she was heckled by both native and British soldiers. After reaching the Zane homestead, she gathered a tablecloth and filled it with gunpowder. During her return, she was fired upon but was uninjured. As a result of her heroism, Fort Henry remained in American control. (Wikipedia)

Grew up in the Ohio Valley not more than a few miles from where this took place. Back in the day when they still taught history every kid knew this story well. Most of the family still lives there and my son is a police officer in Wheeling.

 

[Artificer]

All Long hunters were frontiersmen, but not all frontiersmen were long hunters. I would think a "day horn" would be practical when you knew you were going to be out for a day, but I suspect those small day horns were a result of civilization and casual hunters who knew they were within walking distance of their big horns.

I don't know about the usage of these small horns historically as day horns. I mean, Why?

I was following you well in the first paragraph, but I am afraid I'm confused by the second paragraph?

The NEAT small horn Spence showed in another thread in this section would have made a dandy day horn.

There is also the matter that as rifle calibers generally got smaller over time, they did not need as much powder for a day's hunt.

Gus

 

[Twisted_1in66]

The powder horns from the F&I war period were typically larger than most of those in the Rev War. I have a horn that will easily hold more than half a pound of 3f powder. I always seem to run out of powder before I fill it up and have to open another can to top it. Realize that I am not filling it from a new can to begin with but one that was already open. I'm not sure if it holds a full pound, but it is quite large.

Here's a couple pictures of the one I've used for many years in reenactments. A friend of mine made it specifically to be able to use with F&I reenactments. That ruler next to it is 12" plus about ½" more because of the extra space at each end beyond the ruler markings.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Artificer]

The powder horns from the F&I war period were typically larger than most of those in the Rev War.
Dan

Dan,

First of all, that is a very nice horn, indeed.

OK, I have been wondering about the conventional wisdom of "the horns got smaller from the FIW to the AWI" and especially after looking at the horns in the following link.

https://www.scribd.com/document/288282719/Arms-Accoutrements...
https://www.scribd.com/document/288283152/Arms-Accoutrements...
https://www.scribd.com/document/288283500/Arms-Accoutrements...

Unless I'm mistaken, there would have been more horns carried by Riflemen in the AWI than the FIW and they did not need as much powder as muskets for the same number of shots, so perhaps this is part of the reason for the conventional wisdom?

I'm not so sure the powder horns for musket/smoothbore armed troops would have been smaller in the AWI than the FIW? At the beginning of the AWI, it seems at least some to many men carried pretty much the same size horns as in the FIW.

After all, the standard British Powder charge in both Wars was 165 grains per cartridge. If we take that as the amount needed for British and British Type Muskets used by Whigs/Patriots in the AWI and we figure enough for 20 rounds, then that is 3,300 grains and not that far from the 3,500 grains in a half pound of powder. If we consider the British increased the number of cartridges they carried in the AWI to 24, then that is 3,960 grains and over a half pound of powder.

What I don't know is the standard powder charge used in French Muskets in the period. Since they were a little smaller caliber at .69 cal. vs the .76 caliber of the Brown Bess, they would not have needed quite as much powder for the same number of rounds listed above.

However, as the AWI went on, the use of Powder horns for muskets seems to have been much less than in the early stages of the AWI, as they switched over more fully to paper cartridges.

IOW, I wonder if we are mistaking horns that were used in both conflicts compared to the generally smaller size "day horns" that were more in use by civilians by the time of the AWI?

Gus

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hi Gus,
Thanks for the kind words about my very well used horn. Mine is definitely not a day horn. I actually bought a smaller horn blank to make a "day horn" quite a while ago, but it's still sitting on the shelf waiting for me to get to it.

Thanks for the great links. Very interesting to see the differences in them over the years.

twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan