How much time to finish a stock?

[noahmercy]

I'm having a hard time getting myself to spend more than a half-hour a day on my GPR kit. (At this rate, I figure I won't have the dagum thing done until '06! :curse There's so much work to be done on the stock, I feel like breaking out the belt sander to get things moving. Any helpful suggestions for a newbie to help speed up the process? I'm a complete novice as regards woodwork, and up to this point I've just been using a sanding block to get the high spots down, but it's S-L-O-W going. I feel like if I could see more progress or if I knew that I'm on track, it might motivate me to spend more time on it. It's just kind of frustrating and depressing at this point.

One nice thing...the grain on this walnut is looking much better than I first thought. I think it has the potential to be a beautiful stock. I plan on fuming it, based on feedback I received here.

Thanks in advance, folks. :thumbsup:

 

[vradin]

Slow going will allow for fewer mistakes. At least in my case it does Have you tried using files, rasps, and scrapers? Rasps and files can take off considerable material in a very short time- see Zonie's file tutorial for some great info.

Scrapers are like using mini hand-held planes and can remove wood quite aggressivly if not careful. When properly sharpened and edged, will leave a silken-smooth finish that needs no sanding at all. Scrapers take a little practice to get the right touch, but once you find it, progress is fast and very visible.

:imo: and :m2c: unless you are a production builder, half the reason for making something like this is in the enjoyment of the process. Spending time in the shop, listening to the sound of a tool on wood, the scent of the sawdust, maybe the glow of a woodfire warming the shop. So take whatever time it requires and enjoy it. The only thing better is sharing time in the shop with your children.

I'm a firm believer that time spent in the shop creating something does not count against one's time on this earth. (Yes, that even includes StumBuff's Frankenhat :crackup: :crackup: )

 

[amccall]

Noah, I am not an expert but I have done a fair piece of woodworking. You asked how long will it and it take depends on the finish that you are looking for. Did you start out with a course sandpaper 100 to 120 to get the bad spots and smooth the wood. Then when that is taken care of increase the grate of sandpaper to 150-180 and finish with 240. I sometimes wipe down the wood with a little rubbing alcohol water mix, when using the finner grate sandpaper to see what the wood grain would look like and it also pulls the grain up so you can sand it to a better finish. Don't soak the wood, just dampen it enough to see the grain because sometimes there are scratches that you can not see until the stain is on and then it is to late.
Use wooden dowels for rounded areas and sanding blocks for flat areas and sand in the direction of the grain and life should be good.
When I was 16 I built a TC Hawken kit which is like your GPR kit. I had my Uncle help me, who was experienced with woodworking and I spent a half hour to an hour a day for a week and a half of sanding to get the finish that he said was good. So that is what, 10 and a half hours of sanding by hand. Also a note: If you sand on that gun until 06' you are either using Texas toilet paper, which won't take crap off anyone or anything, or you'll have the smoothest toothpick for a stock. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

I suppose it wouldn't do to say "Go slowly Grasshopper".

I have had rather poor success using the white "flint" or Aluminum Oxide sandpaper. It seems to loose its sharpness rapidly or the makers just seem to use poor glue. Whatever the reason, IMO, the Best paper it the orangeish red Garnet paper. If you can find some made by Norton you will have some of the best paper.
The black paper is usually "wet/dry" paper and it is made for sanding metal and paint. It usually doesn't work well on wood.
The black "emery paper" is IMO about the most usless stuff ever invented. Yes, historically it was used a lot but unless your Really into PC, don't bother with it.

One thing that will speed the sanding is to sand across the grain. This should Only be done when there is a lot of wood to remove because it will leave rather nasty scratches on the surface.
The process involves useing 120 grit sandpaper (or courser if you can find it), sanding across the grain until the wood is about 1/32 from the finished locatin. Then use the 120 grit paper to sand WITH THE GRAIN to smooth it and remove the cross scratches. In fact, from this point on, never sand across the grain
When it is smooth and all of the cross scratches are removed, go to a finer paper like 180.

With the 120 and the 180, the last of the material is removed down to where the wood is where you want it to be.
Then finish the whole thing using 220 or 240 paper (still with the grain).
This 220 or 240 paper will not change the shape much if any. It is used only for the final finishing.

Some people use 320 and finer paper to finish with after the 220 paper. I personally don't think it's worth the effort because wood is porous by nature and the openings in the grain are courser than any finish the 320 will produce.

If your working with Maple or other woods you plan on staining, the 320 and finer paper will actually work against you. Why? Because they tend to fill the woods open grain with very fine sand dust which clogs the pores. This prevents the stain from penetrating uniformly.

A thought on sanding blocks.
Use them when your working on surfaces you want to keep flat.
Use them when you want the edge or corner to be sharp.

Much of the beauty of a stock comes from the smooth rounded transitions from one area to another. In other words, flat surfaces are few, and they seldom run into each other leaving sharp corners. Rounded areas may change shape some but they are often best left rounded.
For this reason, it is best to just use your hand or finger to shape the paper and let it smooth and blend the round areas of the stock together. ::

Try to remember, when the gun is finished you will be much happier with a smooth, beautiful piece of wood that takes time, than you will with a hurried, rushed poorly finished piece of wood. :: ::

 

[noahmercy]

Vic, I haven't used any tools on this stock yet. I suppose I should at least get a couple files and give that a try. The scrapers look like they'd require a little steadier hand than mine to avoid an "oops". But I agree with you about being time well spent, and I suppose the more effort I put into it, the more I'll ultimately appreciate it.

He-Bear and Zonie, I'm actually starting out with 80 grit on the really rough spots. Using garnet paper. I've never seen a kit stock this rough. (And I sold close to 100 various BP rifle kits in the last three years, so I've seen a few.) There are spots where I'll need to remove close to 1/2" :shocking: of wood. There was 1/8-1/4" of wood showing all around the buttplate. My buddy just got a GPR kit today and his stock looks finished compared to mine. Musta' been breaking in a new guy on the cutting machine over at Investarms when they turned this one out. I was planning on going down to 320, but think I'll stop at 220/240 based on what y'all have recommended. And I'll have to try some cross-grain sanding on the really bulky areas and see if that won't speed things up a bit. I had thought of trying it, but wasn't sure if it was advisable.

Thanks fer the replies, fellas. As always, they are sincerely appreciated. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

If you've got $10-$15 you should be able to find a good course double cut metal file that will take down the big humps fairly fast.
Be sure to get a file handle with it. ::

A nice thing about the file is it will work great for removing a lot of material from steel parts too!

Now if you really want to speed things up, go to Ace or a similar store and buy a 2 inch drum sander and some sanding drums in various grades of roughness. These drum sanders consist of a threaded metal rod with a unthreaded end on it. This rod goes thru a 2 inch diameter rubber plug which is about 2 inches long.
IMO these are easier to control and to change paper on than the disk sander things you can also get.
In fact, it you chuck one of these in a drill press, it makes a great tool for massive amounts of wood removal required when forming a stock out of a blank.
These fit in a standard hand drill and will remove a lot of wood fast. They also can get you in trouble just about as fast, so go easy with it. ::

 

[IronCrickett]

Noah,
I just HATE :curse: sanding. Therefore I use techniques to minimize. I use planes to remove bulk ( I use planes when I start from a plank or blank ), cabinet maker rasps to remove more bulk, then gradually reduce the cut of the files until I'm fairly close. I then finish with scrapers to the final or close to final finish. If I have to do any touch-up sanding, it is very minimal...Don't know if this helps you or not, but as I said, I HATE :snore: sanding.

Later
I.C.

 

[brushbuster]

to each their own
when building my rifles ,i used a rasp to remove large amounts of wood when needed to get whithin 1/8" of where i wanted to be then worked closer with a double cut file ,then i went from 80 grit to 220 .
be careful with a rasp,you can remove too much wood very easily :nono:
for a final finish i will whisker with warm eater and let dry then re sand with 220 grit .after that i use a worn scotch brite pad before staining :results: :m2c:

 

[noahmercy]

Dang, fellers, it sure is nice to get all this good advice. How do I know it's good? You all agree on the major points! I hate asking for help and getting answers that are 180 degrees from one another...that's just confusing. But 90% of the recommendations and advice I've seen posted here on the Muzzleloader Forum agree with one another. That speaks highly of the members here.
Once more, a heartfelt thanks for all your replies. :thumbsup:

 

[brian turpin]

I hate sanding too! One tool I've found that makes it more bearable is a Black & Decker Mouse Palm sander. The nose of this sander is shaped something like an iron. This makes sanding contours much easier. With this sander you can keep your lines nice and sharp. There is a wide variety of papers available, plus there is a steel wool pad. The pad is great for removing the excess rust between browning coats.
Bimbo