How NOT to fix a gun...

[Lonegun1894]

I have a CVA Hawken .50 that i built from a kit a couple years back. The thing has been a disappointment in just about every way you can imagine. About a year ago, i decided i'd concentrate on accuracy and mess with cosmetics later. Well, at first, it wouldnt hold it's shots on a 55 gallon drum at 75 yds. Some days were better than others, but the average was just horrible. I have polished the bore due to some rough spots, tried various loads, patches, etc, etc. Recently, the rear sight fell off. The screw holding it on somehow broke when i fired the rifle. Well, in my frustration, i got a couple zipties out of the truck and ziptied the sight back on--dont ask. Well, got it down as tight as i could, and the groups at 50 stayed on a pie plate. It was still cutting patches also. I know i'm gonna get fried for this, but i hope some of you will still talk to me after the smoke clears. I JB Welded the rear sight in position while the zipties held it in place. I also spent an hour a day for about a week polishing the bore with 0000 steel wool wrapped around my cleaning jag. I definitely do not recommend this as a permanent fix, and need to come up with something else, but it seemed like a good idea at the time, almost as good as using the rifle as a target for my .54 GPR--no, i didnt. Well, took it out today expecting the worst. Guess what? No cut patches, nothing fell off, the gun didnt even explode. Wanna know what the kicker is? The thing gave me a 3" group at 25yds, and a 5"er at 50. I know this is nothing to brag about with the way some of your rifles shoot, and nothing compared to my GPR, but i can finally shoot at targets smaller than a buffalo and not be a criminal menace to the community. Now i'll take it out a few more times and see if it was just a fluke, or if maybe i finally got something right on this rifle, but if it works, i'll try to fix it up and make it look decent. If it was a fluke, well, anyone wanna recommend a smith who can rebore the rifle for me without it costing me my future firstborn? Thanks.
Paul

 

Save yourself a lot of pain and deep six the CVA or turn it into a wall decoration. Stick with your GPR until you have saved enough to buy a good quality Rifle or parts for a custom built gun.
And buy American you can't go wrong.TC is another option for a reliable gun although not historicaly correct, if you are into the history end of Muzzleloading.

 

[Swampman]

Excellent advise...... :thumbsup:

 

It will work well for propping the garage door open.

 

[boar]

Lonegun I have 2 hawkens and 2 Mt rifles and 1 kentucky rifle and pistol,1 squirrel rifle. All CVAs, they shoot good,Now I would watch and pick up a barrel as It would be cheapest way to go if you decide your barrel is no good.A 54 will fit as well,as I have both for mine.Not for sale. I have seen them for sale on gun sites. As to the sights I have mine set up Adjustable and primitive . The extra barrels fit the hawken. Dilly

 

[bwhoffman]

there is a cva barrel on 2nd vowel-bay that closes in 5 days, stock and lock in another sale.
barrel is 50x26" and looks decent.

FYI,
Brett

hope I didn't to the wrong thing here, if so, nuke this post.

 

[Mad Professor]

Could have the original problem been the screw on the sight with the sight flopping around between shots?

 

[jethro224]

That's what I was thinkin'. :hmm:

I have a couple of CVAs that shoot great! My .50 Frontier rifle with a 1:48 twist 24" short barrel put 8 round balls into one ragged hole and 2 more within 3" at 50 yards from a rest the last time I had it out. It likes .490 ball/ .015 patch/ bore butter/ 70 grains 2F.

I would get the sights fixed right and do some work on the load. Should make a decent rifle.
Even if it ain't historically correct.

Good luck and have fun! :thumbsup:

 

[Lonegun1894]

The sight itself probably didnt help as it had been coming loose, but even with making sure it was tight, it still shot like manure. I know its coming loose wouldnt help any, but several of us tried shooting that thing using our own methods and it never shot as good as it does now. The load used was 70fff, piliwticking, and a wheelweight ball cast from a .490 lee mold. It's the most accurate thing yet, so i think if this isnt it's preferred load, i have to be very close. I dont really wanna make it a decoration, but then again, it might turn out that way anyways. The sights definitely need to be fixed right, as opposed to what i did out of frustration. Kinda thinking i might just use this as my learning/project gun. What do i really have to lose wih it anyways? After many calls and emails to CVA, or should i say BPI, they were absolutely no help whatsoever. Promises, but no delivery. I guess i'll be redoing this rifle to try and fix it right. Or i may just keep it as is and see if i cant get it shooting ok and use it as a beater to keep in the truck. As has been said, it is far from PC, so i wouldnt be ruining a collector item by any means. truck gun... fixer-upper? decisions, decisions. If i fix it though, i wana do it right---this time around.
Paul

 

For future reference, stay away from CVA. Save your money and have a custom rifle built for you. It won't be cheap but you'll enjoy it for the rest of your life as well as your son and his son.

 

[tonyclarke]

hello everyone whats a cva hawken is it a gun of poor quality?.here in england there is not a lot of information on the different makes of hawkens available in the states,my main source of information is this forum .so if some of you could explain the good hawkens from the bad i would be very gratefull as i do like them and the way of life they represent. :hatsoff:

 

[Lonegun1894]

Englishman,
i know several and have heard about many people who are happy with their CVA guns. Having said that, mine was a complete mess when i got it as a kit. I didnt expect it to be perfect by any means, but a few things about it go to me. One of the worst aspects was the pitting in the last few inches of barrel. It wasnt very bad, but enough that it was a real pain to load and clean. I have finally namaged to polish the bore enough that it feels mostly smooth when i run a tight patch down, but it still isnt where i'd like it to be. About the only part of the rifle i cant find any fault with is the lock. It fires eevrytime i pull the trigger and the trigger feels nice and light. The stock, while far from pretty, is functional so i'll just refinish it til i'm happy with it. the barrel and sights i'm just gonna have to get used to or at least get rebored, while replacing the sights. Then again, a friend of mine has a CVA that shoots 2" groups at 50yds right out of the box. So i know they can make good ones and think i just got a bad one, or at least one that needs more work done to it.
Paul

 

[paulvallandigham]

By some Walter's fiber wads to put between the powder and the PRB, and try that. I suspect that you don't have a .490 ball from that Lee Mold. Have you miked it? ANd how thick is your pillow ticking? If that ball is undersize- say .485-.487, and you are using wheelweight, rather than pure lead, it may not be able to bump up to provide a good seal. The fiber wad should help fix that problem. However, you still need the correct ball and patch combination, and it doesn't sound like you are there, yet. I know many men with CVA rifles and they are good shooters, when you use the right combination of components. Use a good lube on that patching, too. If the muzzle is cutting patches, then round that muzzle crown by wrapping emery clothe around the rounded end of a file handle, and polish that muzzle. You can push a piece of rag into the barrel just deep enough so that you can still reach it with needle nose pliers or a fish hook to pull it back out, and thereby keep steel, and emery dust out of the barrel. ( Firing a percussion cap will blow a small rag out of the barrel, too.) Patch cutting is either done mechanically, because you have sharp edges on the muzzle or the rifling, or by gas cutting past the side of the ball, because the patch and ball combination are too small. Work from there to solve this.

 

[Barney]

Englishman, CVA is on the lower end of the scale, I guess. But they got alot of people interested in ML shooting. I've got 2 that shoot just fine. Maybe flyboy has a custom that can shoot the center out of a target better than mine, :hmm: but I doubt it. Maybe it can drop a critter better also, :hmm: but I doubt it. Not everyone can afford a custom gun, I can't.

 

[sparsons]

not sure anyone answered Englishmans question. Most of the main companies make their version of the Hawken. Thompson is perhaps the most notable.I bought one myself last Oct. Thompson is American made barrel included. CVA and Tradition also make a version of the Hawken but their barrels are from either Spain or Italy. Which is the best depends on who you talk to. Most of the Hawkens come with a 1:48 twist. Hope that helps, other have much more knowledge than I so maybe they will help you.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I would just keep shooting the CVA it may come around for you. I think a permanant fix of the sights before getting too into it is in order.

Good luck.

 

[Dave_B]

My CVA might be as ugly as a tomato stake (I built it), but it's plenty accurate. After 40 or 50 shots, the groups tightened up quite a bit.
I would make sure everything is tight and then go shoot it - a bunch.
Dave

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Part of your problem may be the wheelweight balls. The hardness can cause patch cutting and uncertain rotation since the lands don't indent the hard ball. I'd try a box of swaged lead balls as a first step. As to the sight problem, JB Weld is probably a more secure attachment than the factory screws, especially if you degreased the sight and barrel before applying it.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It might be worth noting that "hawken" is used by several makers to describe a half stock rifle built along robust lines. These rifles don't come close to looking like a true Hawken or an accurate reproduction of one. And, yes, quality does vary widely from maker to maker.

 

[omgb]

I bought a GPR a couple of years ago that had a rough bore from a previous owner. I solved it this way. I bought bore lapping paste from LBT (Beartooth would be good too) and I cast a few maxi balls (TC slugs) from wheel weights. I loaded this with lapping compound per instructions. Then I loaded and fired 20 of them 940 grains of 4f) cleaning completely and carefully between each shot. The bore is now smooth, polished and free from tight spots. It cleans easier, stays clean longer and it shoots much more accurately.