how to load an ECW matchlock ?

[brownbess67]

Hello,sorry my english. Does Anybody know how to load an ECW matchlock musket in the "living history way"? no paper cartridge ? and if it is just powder and ball, what to charge between these two and in front of the ball ?(some paper?). Thanks !!

 

[Alden]

You always can. Bandoliers were the norm but maybe some flax tow or grass early on. Look for De Gheyn's instructions which contain no patching for any of the types of guns. The New Model Army? They might actually have sometimes -- paper cartridges were routinely introduced by the excellent Gustavus Adolphus and they did not waste the wrap! I can't find a book I'm looking for at the moment...

They may be here or posted on the Internet somewhere but Dover published a big book of the de Gheyn prints with instructions. I think Stuart Press did too and a few have covered the ECW of course. Probably some American or UK ECW Society members around here... Or some Knot guys may comment.

 

[brownbess67]

Thanks Alden !, I want to load without paper cartridge, and I was thinking about some paper or flax tow ´cause Im afraid the ball round out the barrel, or move, while aiming.

 

[Karl Helweg]

Do you mean loading from Apostles?

Alden - Are 17th century reenactors loading form Apostles or paper cartridges for safety? My Apostles do not feel very safe to me since my matchlocks have such large priming pans.

 

[brownbess67]

Yes Karl, loading from Apostles. I like so much them, but I think they are a little dangerous too, and I want a tight ball in the barrel.. dont know how soldiers kept the ball immobile in the XVII wars.

 

[Karl Helweg]

Yes Karl, loading from Apostles. I like so much them, but I think they are a little dangerous too, and I want a tight ball in the barrel.. don't know how soldiers kept the ball immobile in the XVII wars.

I notice in all of the pictures above that the soldiers are keeping their muskets elevated at least 45 degrees or in what the modern military calls port arms. This should have kept the undersized ball, unpatched ball from having a chance to slide out. After some shooting the powder fouling might hold the ball in place better.

Many also probably hunted so they would have been familiar with wadding shot or patching balls when the fighting allowed them to load better.

I personally suspect that the main reason why musketeers kept wearing breast plates and helmets then wide brimmed hats and leather doublets was to protect themselves from their own matchlocks. Most living history requires that we compromise between authenticity and safety.

 

[Alden]

Karl;
The answer is "both." "Haversacks conceal alot of ills." Typically the bandoliers and priming flask are only as minimally loaded as possible when they will be used, but used they are. Yes, they are a little dangerous -- there is no doubt of that. Other than noise and arguably fragility, being exposed to a dozen hand grenades and one pitard tethered to you by a wide leather strap while you are carrying your "coal" and making sparks and burning powder flashes is questionable. And I like to smoke a period pipe afield.

I was the safety officer for a group called The so-and-so Colonial Militia. I recall leaning over a firepit at a native-American museum demo, powder bottles dangling, and warned everyone never to do what I was... But to take note how far I was willing to go to train them. LOL

 

[Canute Rex]

Actually, I'd rather have my powder in individual charges in spark-proof non-metallic containers than anything else. Apostles are better than paper cartridges on the "stray spark" front.

The only thing I could think of that would be better than wooden apostles would be cuir boulli (hard-boiled leather) chargers with caps of the same material. Zero shrapnel potential. There are some eastern European examples of those, I think.

 

[brownbess67]

Thanks Karl, interesting pictures. Well I dont have an armour to protect myself, I think safety is first, dont want a rolling ball so wanna use powder + ball + wad. Regards.

 

[Karl Helweg]

I have referred to them as a dozen "anti-vampire grenades" at demos. So far I have only loaded 1 Apostle at a time. Even with armour and leather I do not feel that black powder proof. I suppose that compared to loading directly from a horn Apostles were a great improvement in safety and allowed gunners to stand closer and increase volume of fire.

 

[Alden]

I tell folk they are perfume bottles -- that people smelled back then. Then I start looking around with a face on till somebody says "noooo..."


Just a reference:

1.Unshoulder the already charged and primed harquebus
2.Hold the piece upright in the right hand freeing the left to manipulate the slow match
3.Move the piece down into the left hand
4.Take up the match with the right hand
5.Blow on the match to revive its glow
6.Clamp the glowing end of the match within the cock
7.Test the match to ensure it will reach the priming pan
8.Cover the pan and blow on the match, then reopen the pan
9.Bring down the piece into the firing position
10.Aim and fire
11.Return the piece to the left hand, the muzzle upwards
12.Uncock the match
13.Take the match in the left hand
14.Blow the pan clean and take up the priming flask
15.Prime the pan from the flask
16.Close the pan
17.Shake off and blow away any loose powder
18.Bring the piece around to the left hip
19.Take up the larger powder flask with the right hand
20.Charge the piece by releasing powder from the flask (or maybe charge from an apostle on a bandolier) into the barrel
21.Withdraw the ramrod from within the forestock with the right hand
22.With the right hand remove a ball from the mouth or shot-pouch, and insert it in the barrel
23.Ram home the shot and charge
24.Reinsert the ramrod into the forestock
25.Prepare the weapon for discharge by following the above steps from 2

 

[Karl Helweg]

Smoking safety.

Apparently the Brandmeister evolved into the modern German fireman(?) There are worse personae than being the unit pyromaniac.

 

[Alden]

Ah, THAT explains why Nazi firemen had their own Nazi daggers! I always wondered what the heck that was all about...

I think Sherman imported a few for his March to the Sea. If not, Karl, you should write an alternative history of those clandestine teutonic arsonist's adventures!

 

[Alden]

Hey, wait a minute you Raconteur you, those guys are French. Get them outta the ENGLISH Civil War! Unless, wait a minute, did the Frogs start it as part of The Old Alliance!?

 

[robinghewitt]

did the Frogs start it as part of The Old Alliance!?

I think the frogs were still laughing following Buckingham's 1627 attempt on Ilè de Rhé. The scaling ladders he took with him were 15ft shorter than the citadel walls were high.

That campaign wasted £20,000 which the king had borrowed. Buckingham got assassinated the year after for being both a twit and expensive.

Buckingham dying certainly affected Charles and contributed to the Civil War. Could Buckingham have succeeded and brought home some much needed loot if Parliament had granted taxes to fund the campaign? Probably not. The French readily gave Charles' wife and children a safe haven when the war went against him. I think they were rather enjoying Charles v Parliament as a side show rather than an opportunity.

 

[Alden]

Now Brave Sir Robin, you KNOW what the court referred to as "the ladder-thing" was an intelligence snafu. They measured the height of the walls properly in meters (they WERE on the Continent) and reported back. The ladders were well built by good English shipwrights in just so many yards but no one told them what they were for and they didn't use an hypotenuse. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

But the real wildcard is the turncoat Scots. THE SCOTS! Secretly working here with France. Again! Fomenting trouble...

Coincidently Karl, an adventure literature junkie, is writing his own historical novel about an itinerant lower noble who had to flee one of the failed Jacobite uprisings and ended up as a warrior-fireman in Nazi Germany only to be recruited to serve in Sherman's March to the Sea and the U.S. manned space program. The protagonist's name is Francois Macschicklgoddard. Karl's working out some minor issues with the timeline now but do you see how this all fits together? As a guy I knew used to say "threads man, see, threads -- it's all connected man"!

What say you!?

 

[robinghewitt]

If it was a religious war then the Catholic king was fighting a Protestant Parliament.

The French would have had to side with the king or seriously annoy Rome and Spain. Doesn't sound very likely does it.

We don't see big French interference until Protestant William displaces Catholic James.

 

[Alden]

But Scotland largely had the Protestant kirk in one form or fashion from the 16th C. on. No, you've not landed upon the correct perspective of the enlightened Frenchers Brave Sir Robin.

:wink:

 

[robinghewitt]

You are referring to John Knox and his Presbyterian church?

Charles's dad was James, king of Scotland. The Scots thought Charles was okay, apart from his new prayer book which they loathed with a passion.

 

[Alden]

I don't think so -- the Presbyterians were a little later than the Calvinists I was thinking of I believe and more traditional sects there before that that were Protestant nevertheless. Point is they were in league with the Left Bank.

But we digress...