how to pattern a muzzleloader shotgun

[trent]

im going turkey hunting but i cant figure out how to pattern my gun it seems i get a lot of pellets on the outside edge of an 20 inch circle but very few in on the head is this normal or can i do something to fix this thanks trent

 

[roundball]

im going turkey hunting but i cant figure out how to pattern my gun it seems i get a lot of pellets on the outside edge of an 20 inch circle but very few in on the head is this normal or can i do something to fix this thanks trent

You didn't mention gauge or type of smoothbore, but I use the information on Bob Spencer's website for my .62cal(.20ga) turkey load...its a 1:1.5 ratio of powder to shot and is excellent.

80grns Goex 3F
Two Oxyoke .20ga 1/8" prelubed wads over powder
120grns #6s
Circle Fly over shot card
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

 

[29caliber]

Roundball...I've got an 11 gauge TVM flintlock. Do you know if the same 1:1.5 powder to shot ratio you use in your 20 gauge will hold true for my 11 gauge? It has been jug choked with .035 for turkey hunting by the same gunsmith that did your 20 gauge.

 

[roundball]

Roundball...I've got an 11 gauge TVM flintlock. Do you know if the same 1:1.5 powder to shot ratio you use in your 20 gauge will hold true for my 11 gauge? It has been jug choked with .035 for turkey hunting by the same gunsmith that did your 20 gauge.

I don't know any reason it wouldn't...the larger bore would mean even less pressure...if you gave me a Jug Choked .11ga that's the load I'd start with as a baseline to see how it patterned, then adjust the ratio up and down...mark detailed notes on each target as to the powder charge, type & # of wads, size of shot charge, etc...and only change one variable at a time of course.

I do all my patterning at 40yds on the obvious assumption that when its best at 40yds anything shorter will be even better.

I like Oxyoke wonderwads and would buy .10ga Oxyoke wads for the .11ga so they'd be good and snug...if not, Circle Fly prelubed 1/2" cushion wads work well but in my .20 I slice them in half with a razor blade to have 1/4" wads...simple and quick to do at a table. (note: if you go the Circle Fly route use their .11ga size of course)

I'd start with and leave the powder charge of 80grns Goex 3F and shot charge of 1+5/8oz #6s constant, and shoot 3 targets at 40yds with 1 Oxyoke wad, then 3 shots with 2 wads, 3 shots with 3 wads, and 3 shots with 4 wads...see which gives the best pattern, etc.

Use some sort of precise "aim point" sticker in the middle of sheets of paper at least the size of flip chart paper.

Take the shots from the same position you'll probably be using when hunting so the recoil arc will be similar to actual hunting conditions, not from a bench.

Before (of after) shooting a target fold the sheet in half twice so you'll have crease lines that divide it into quadrants and count the pellet dispersion per quadrant...that'll show a trend if you're POI is off center high/low/left/right.

Then using the best wad result, I'd try with 90grns 3F...or if using 2F try 90 and 100grns of 2F as the two powder trials.

Lastly I'd try increments of 1/8oz more shot, less shot, etc.

I've really come to love a smoothbore and shot loads and the Jug Choke concept is fantastic

 

[paulvallandigham]

Trent: You are getting the Donut hole pattern, which usually occurs because the thick cushion wad is soak in whatever lube you use, increasing its weight. When the load is shot out of the barrel, the cushion wad follows the shot column, in its vacuum( called drafting in Nascar racing) and actually bumps the shot from behind as its thick, solid mass continues, for a short time, to move through the air faster, than the round pellets. The pellets slow down and the cushion wad bumps them, with the same effect that hitting a rack of pool balls with the cue ball has.

The Cure:

1. Cut the cushion wad in thirds;
2. Don't use a cusion wad at all. Instead try:
a. Use 2 OP wads, wiping the edge with a liquid lube, like cooking oil;
b. Use only OS cards, using 4 cards over the powder, with a dab of grease between the third and fourth cards, then the shot, followed by 2 OS cards. The OS cards should all have off-centered holes in them, and they should be loaded in the barrel so the holes don't line up together. This process allows air to seperate the cards when they leave the muzzle, and fall to the ground quickly, rather than stay together and " bump " the shot column.

The benefit of this system is that it works, gives even patterns, and you only have to carry one wad with you into the field, rather than the traditional 3 different wads.

c. Some men are using 2 OP wads( 1/8 thick cardboard wads) then the shot, and then an OS card. Unless you are shooting a lot of birds, there is no need to lube the barrel, as the fouling will not build up that much for a few shots. They do get better patterns, without the hole in the middle you are having.

d. I have tried using the OP wad, 1/3 cushion wad, then a OS card, to provide a hard flat surface to push the shot out evenly, then the shot, followed by an OS card, and then I lube the barrel with a greased cleaning patch carried in my pocket in a ziplock bag for that purpose. I found this reduces or eliminates leading in my barrel, softens the fouling, to prevent crud build-up, and seems to give me a very even pattern out of my cylinder bore barrel.

Take your choice.

Best Wishes.Welcom to the forums.
:thumbsup:

 

[29caliber]

Roundball...I just got in from spending around 3 hours patterning my 11 gauge TVM flintlock. I started with your recommendations and went from there. So far, this smoothbore likes 90 gr. FFg, 1/2" fiber wad (split in two with Leigh lube added to the 2nd half), then an overshot card, 120 gr. #5 shot, and then another overshot card. At 40 yards, it's very capable of taking a turkey. While this probably isn't the final load I'll settle on, it was as far as time would allow today.

Initially, I could not get the smoothbore to fire. Regardless of what I did I could only get the pan to ignite. I ran a pick into the flash hole and it felt like it was crunching black powder; however, even trickling some 4F through the flash hole didn't work. So...back the 2-3 miles to the house where I pulled the load. Then I ran a worm down the barrel to see if there was something down there blocking the flash hole. I pulled out an inch or so of packed metal shavings, evidentally left over from the jug choking which wouldn't allow my powder to reach the flash hole. When I ran my patched range rod down the barrel before loading it, as is my standard practice, it came out clean. It never crossed my mind that there might be metal shaving at the bottom of the barrel. I suppose that this could have had negative consequences if the main charge of powder had gotten behind the shavings and ignited, causing the metal shavings to become packed in front of it, effectively plugging the barrel. Please run a worm down your barrel before attempting to shoot it if you've had it jug choked. Tom

 

[roundball]

Sounds like you're on your way...and if the truth be known, 99% of turkeys are shot in the 20-35 yard range anyway.
PS: Had you had a chance to fire it to see how it patterned before having it jug choked?

 

[rabjr]

I hope to get to the range next week or the week after and try my setup too. I think I'll start with 65 gr 3F, half a fiber wad, over shot card, 1 1/4 oz of #5 nickel plated shot and another over shot card. And work up from there. Can't wait to check out my jug choke, chasing turkeys the last two years with open cylinder guns totally sucked lol.

 

[roundball]

I hope to get to the range next week or the week after and try my setup too. I think I'll start with 65 gr 3F, half a fiber wad, over shot card, 1 1/4 oz of #5 nickel plated shot and another over shot card. And work up from there. Can't wait to check out my jug choke, chasing turkeys the last two years with open cylinder guns totally sucked lol.

Didn't know you'd had one done...what is it, who did it, etc?

 

[rabjr]

I got a North West Star Early English I built especially for a turkey gun. It's a 36" .20 ga barrel that I had Roy jug choke for me. I'm dieing to get the range and try it out. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I got a North West Star Early English I built especially for a turkey gun. It's a 36" .20 ga barrel that I had Roy jug choke for me. I'm dieing to get the range and try it out. :thumbsup:

I assume you got it set 'Full'...and you also probably already know about this guys website...I use his turkey load in my GM .62/.20
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

 

[rabjr]

Yep got his site bookmarked. :thumbsup:

 

[29caliber]

Roundball...I was going to use this 11 gauge TVM last spring, but at 25 yards it threw a wide pattern such that I didn't have confidence in it and didn't want to wound any turkeys. I did manage to take three gobblers last spring with a modern shotgun, all at 30 yards or more, so I'm glad that I waited until I had it jug choked before going after the toms. Thanks for sharing your experiences with muzzleloaders. I've learned a lot from your posts and those of others willing to share. There's just not enought time in life for each of us to discover the wheel individually.
Tom

 

[trent]

thank you ill be working it outin the next couple of days

 

[roundball]

There's just not enought time in life for each of us to discover the wheel individually.

Forums are excellent for that...IMO, the MLF is the "cliff's notes' of muzzleloading.

Plus, with search engines like Google there's an unprecedented, virtually unlimited amount of information at our fingertips from the comfort of a recliner...