Hunter Harassment

[nit wit]

Funny, you say they were going about their business, but you did not go about your business! It was not them it was you.
Nit Wit

 

[Ponderosaman]

Funny, you say they were going about their business, but you did not go about your business! It was not them it was you.
Nit Wit

I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying that I was harassing the mom and her kids? Had I gone about my business, I’d have scared the bejeesus out of her and her kids. As it was I chose to give them their space and get their tadpoles or whatever it was they were collecting. I don’t think either I or they were harassing anyone, though it was frustrating for me.

And thanks to the posters who responded with their own stories of actual harassment and the discussion. I have come to the conclusion that should I ever get actually harassed, I will either 1. Pack it up, document, and notify the authorities. Or
2. Take the harassers on a harrowing trip into a deep dark place and set up camp, like the one story. Lol.

 

[Spikebuck]

After the deer hunting fiasco mentioned, WIDNR didn't waste any time getting Hmong Safety Wardens trained and in place around WI to provide training and guidance to Hmong hunters. We've had one in the Eau Claire Regional Office for some time. I'm a recently retired hunter safety instructor (31 years).

I don't know how many they have around Minnesota, but (WAY too late) I know they now have a Hmong warden that spends time in the Whitewater wildlife mgmt area in SE MN. This area with nearly 80,000 public acres is a magnet for Hmong hunters. I live very near this area hence my decades of interaction with this group of hunters since the first year they started using it.

 

[TraderVic]

I was in a family deer camp in the same county (Sawyer Co). Our remote camp was about 35 miles away from the crime scene, in the SW corner of the county. The tragedy occurred on opening day (Saturday) and we packed out on Monday afternoon. As we began driving, we caught the news on the truck radio and couldn't hardly believe what we were hearing.
Bizarre....a tragic, sad story.

 

[nit wit]

I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying that I was harassing the mom and her kids? Had I gone about my business, I’d have scared the bejeesus out of her and her kids. As it was I chose to give them their space and get their tadpoles or whatever it was they were collecting. I don’t think either I or they were harassing anyone, though it was frustrating for me.

And thanks to the posters who responded with their own stories of actual harassment and the discussion. I have come to the conclusion that should I ever get actually harassed, I will either 1. Pack it up, document, and notify the authorities. Or
2. Take the harassers on a harrowing trip into a deep dark place and set up camp, like the one story. Lol.

Your business was hunting, you should have continued to hunt. As long as you did not shoot toward them, you were fine!
Nit Wit

 

[Ponderosaman]

Your business was hunting, you should have continued to hunt. As long as you did not shoot toward them, you were fine!
Nit Wit

I see what you mean now. If I’d had a bow, that might have made sense, but with a shotgun, I think the little kids would have probably ended up crying.

 

[TDM]

Reading through this thread has been interesting and somewhat shocking as I have never had any experiences to compare. As I’ve stated in other post there are so few people where I am and the land is all owned in 160, 200, or greater acreages of which all is posted. I know this will sound brash but people don’t trespass because there’s always a chance they’ll be shot or at least get into a fight. And there are no anti-hunters here. But I understand the challenges of trying to hunt and shoot in your populated areas. My hats off to y’all and good luck.

 

[Dark Angel]

on long island n.y. [ very populated] we have a special month of january shotgun/ m/l deer season. we have tons of deer . the public land that is open to hunting is closed to other activities during this season. but idiots still ride bikes and horses or hike through there usually dressed in all the wrong colors. when one gets hurt or killed it will be our fault. cant legally fix stupid. and yes there are those that try to mess up the hunt ,then cry about the damage the deer do to their property or cars.

on long island n.y. [ very populated] we have a special month of january shotgun/ m/l deer season. we have tons of deer . the public land that is open to hunting is closed to other activities during this season. but idiots still ride bikes and horses or hike through there usually dressed in all the wrong colors. when one gets hurt or killed it will be our fault. cant legally fix stupid. and yes there are those that try to mess up the hunt ,then cry about the damage the deer do to their property or cars.

Heard of this happening many years ago, in Okla., during shotgun season. As reported to authorities, a hunter was drawing down on a buck with his shotgun. Suddenly, some crazy woman stepped from behind some trees and put her hands over the nuzzle just as he pulled the trigger. A 12 ga. slug makes an awful mess, especially of a hand at close range. After the dust settled, she was charged with hunter harassment under Okla. Laws. Not only lost her hand from her own stupidity but got a stiff fine and jail time too. It was reported that she told the authorities that she hoped that the hunter would be able to stop in time.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

In the early 80's I rented so to speak, 80 acres of Corn.surrounded by posted land on3 sides for 2 miles each directon.4th side was public road. I set in the fence row on the side furthest from the road. Now I say RENTED because it was an odd situation that the owner had going. some one else had it rented Opening day. I paid him $10 he gave me written permission. I was to call him when I had my deer out of the field. I didn't have to shoot anything in particular and could Hunt as long as I wanted. just call him when I was done.so So he could rerent it. So I'm all set at Shooting time , A Pick up pulls up to me on the other side of the fence on the Alfalfa. Out steps the NEW Game warden. He asks for lic & Id. then ENCOURAGES me to leave. I show him my Permisson from Swede, Digusted he gets back in the the truck ,drives clear around the rest of the 80.turns around comes back past me .and leaves.this takes out the first hour of shooting time,I see deer coming to the CORN but they run off with him DUNKYIN' around..I'm a little ANNOYED to say the least. I figure I'll get one tonight at sunset.
WELL, 2 hrs before sunset I ready. I'm not a horn hunter. First large bodied deer is gonna get it. 1/2 hr before sunset here comes the same truck same NEW Game Warden, he steps out & asks for my lic & Id. I,m LIVID cause deer are moving across the Alfalfa from all 3 directions, but take off as he is JACKIN' with Me. I come UNCORKED, I said I got the same XXXXing lic. & the same XXXxing Permission that I had this MORNING. and if you're here in the Morning you'll be UNEMPLOYED by NOON. He gets my documents looks them over , gets back in the truck and drives all around the fence line and leaves.I check the time it's sunset so I've still got 30 min. to hunt. But I decide not to risk him saying I'm shooting after hours. Next morning, No game warden, I shoot a nice big bodied 4x4. load him up and head to tell SWEDE what is going on. SWEDE knows all about it, That's why he "Rents" the place to me and gives Written permission. Seems the first hunter got the same drill. Swede called his neighbor who owns all the surrounding ground, come to find out the NEW game warden has permission to BOWHUNT all the posted ground if he keep TRESPASSERS out ,Basically gets rewarded for doing his job. SWEDE made a call to his old friend the DIRECTOR of the game & parks dept. Too late for my first day, but not too late for the season.The next year NEB. gets a hunter harrassment law...But IMAGINE the look on said GAME WARDEN'S face when he walks in the class room I'm using, I had called him at home and asked him to speak to my HUNTER SAFETY class about hunter ETHICS. .......We became good friends and remain so to this day....Be Safe>>>>>>>>Wally

Always preferable to enlist a well-intentoned (and I know I am probably being a bit gracious with that officer) adversary as an ally,, rather than unnecessarily making him into an out-&-out ENEMY by our thoughts, words, and actions...
Well-played!

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Are you referring to the Wisconsin incident back in 2004? If so, that individual was Hmong who are from Laos and Vietnam, not Korea.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have relatively large Hmong populations. Unfortunately, their start into hunting under a US game mgmt model started very poorly (I put a lot of blame on the state DNRs for not seeing an issue and requiring they first be trained in US game mgmt/hunting). In short, they trespassed everywhere, even when posted, and literally shot everything that moved, including non-game & out of season species. It was rampant and you can only imagine it if you personally witnessed it. This left a VERY bad impression of them on long time hunters who were always running into them on their private properties. In the Wisconsin incident the Hmong guy was sitting one of their treestands and was informed he was on private property and asked to leave, but refused, and it escalated.

Again, I put most of the blame on the DNRs for not putting training programs in place much earlier. You cannot expect immigrants, many who spoke no english at all, from an entirely different hunting culture to understand modern game management principles and laws.

Fortunately, over several decades now, they have learned what they needed to and the situation is far better...no different than any other hunters. I have spoken to numerous Hmong at a gun range I go to and frankly, I'd rather shoot next to them than most of the rednecks that show up violating many range rules and don't clean up after themselves. The Hmong are polite, courteous, and always clean up their target litter and empty shell casings, etc.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

I have, when being challenged/berated byy anti-hunter, been known to pull out my Tribal I.D./enrollment card, and then ask if they have a problem with Indigenous people continuing what parts of our traditions and lifeways we still can... Funny look in their eyes when one part of their gut-thinking value system runs headlong into another part. It can lead into a conversation where hunting rights of non-Indian people who pay their license fees and contribute large amounts of money toward maintaining the habitat via Pittman-Robertson excise taxes get explained to them as well... Ultimately their complaint is generally against poachers and gun-toting slobs, whom I will NOT call "hunters." We have then ended the conversation on common ground, at least half the time. Not a card everybody gets to play, but I have used this one more than a time or two... So far, in-town conversations rather than in-the-woods situations, so the heatedness is generally less, I admit, but maybe it has prevented at least one actual harassment episode from occurring at some point.

 

[Mad Professor]

One winter I was hunting my own land, sat down my back to a big cherry tree, overlooking one on my wood roads. A woman, I'd never seen before, on cross country skis approaches up the road with her dog. She was oblivious to me in my pumpkin suit just off the wood road, her dog wasn't.

He was a friendly mutt that came over to say hi and I gave him a few pats on the head. Then the woman realized she was alone and came back to find her dog, which she did along with me. She seemed furious.

"What are you doing here with a gun! This land is posted!".

"Yes it is posted, I posted it. Why are you trespassing?"...........

"Well I thought it was posted for hunting".........

"Did you read my signs? It is posted for hunting,trespassing, any sort of entry without permission" "I've lived here all my life and I've never seen you. Neighbors I know are welcome to hike or use my land for recreation, they all were decent enough to ask my permission or are life long friends. I only allow a few close friends to hunt here" "You have interrupted my days hunting" At this point she was quite flustered and didn't know what to say.

"Could you please go back where you came from so I can enjoy the rest of my morning hunting?" She left in a huff without a word ,dog on tow.

 

[Wawyasto]

I have, when being challenged/berated byy anti-hunter, been known to pull out my Tribal I.D./enrollment card, and then ask if they have a problem with Indigenous people continuing what parts of our traditions and lifeways we still can... Funny look in their eyes when one part of their gut-thinking value system runs headlong into another part. It can lead into a conversation where hunting rights of non-Indian people who pay their license fees and contribute large amounts of money toward maintaining the habitat via Pittman-Robertson excise taxes get explained to them as well... Ultimately their complaint is generally against poachers and gun-toting slobs, whom I will NOT call "hunters." We have then ended the conversation on common ground, at least half the time. Not a card everybody gets to play, but I have used this one more than a time or two... So far, in-town conversations rather than in-the-woods situations, so the heatedness is generally less, I admit, but maybe it has prevented at least one actual harassment episode from occurring at some point.

Citizen Potawatomi Nation here.

These people don't care about Native Americans unless they can find a way to use us as a political weapon. If you're not poor, drunk, drug addicted, unemployed or living on a reservation in squalor you're not "indian enough" and of no use to them.

 

[2 shots]

No Sportsmen or even a Basic Ethical Hunter would/could sight and pull a trigger on anything that's not identifiable as the game target.

you are absolutely correct. im not talking about shooting a person thinking it is a deer. on long island the scrub oak is very thick , not open country.very hard to see someone 20 yards beyond your target without blaze. it is closed to them for their safety and as not to interfere with hunters. it is a shotgun/ muzzle loader only area. i always try to line up a tree for a backstop to catch the pass thru..i have always told my kids and everyone else that when you pull the trigger you own that bullet.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Citizen Potawatomi Nation here.

These people don't care about Native Americans unless they can find a way to use us as a political weapon. If you're not poor, drunk, drug addicted, unemployed or living on a reservation in squalor you're not "indian enough" and of no use to them.

Would agree re: some in some "leadership" (feels sad using that word...)
Living in a state capital that is also a university town, most of the folks that raise the issue are genuinely well-intentioned; at the same time, they just are young enough, or at least immature enough, that they haven't worked out, or even become aware of, the inconsistencies and conflicts in their value and belief systems. My response to them hits on one of those inconsistencies, and they have to deal with it.
Lots of factors why this works better here in Tallahassee than it might in some other places...

 

[Brokennock]

you are absolutely correct. im not talking about shooting a person thinking it is a deer. on long island the scrub oak is very thick , not open country.very hard to see someone 20 yards beyond your target without blaze. it is closed to them for their safety and as not to interfere with hunters. it is a shotgun/ muzzle loader only area. i always try to line up a tree for a backstop to catch the pass thru..i have always told my kids and everyone else that when you pull the trigger you own that bullet.

Yup, it isn't always about mistaken identity.
Although I have been just a few yards from someone wearing a full blaze orange vest and hat and been unable to see then.
I most often have seen blaze orange work because a shot was not taken due to a hunter being beyond the target. In fact, the last two Saturdays in a row,,,, at least,,, my brother has passed on shots at pheasant because he could see orange past the bird.
Unfortunately, blaze orange is not required for non-hunters who are on state land open to hunting in my state. This marks hunters. It also makes me question the real need for it when deer hunting. Obviously I've experienced it's usefulness while bird hunting, but, even with orange it's pretty rare I see another deer hunter while I'm out and never in a situation where there could have been a pass through issue. If the dog walker, hiker, amd mountain biker, who aren't as observant of their surroundings, don't have to wear it,,,, why do I?

 

[chorizo]

After retirement from the USMC, I spent a stint as a Bureau of Land Management manager of a rather large area that had sections (640 acres) of land scattered about some farming areas. These sections, filled with sage brush, were great magnets for quail and pheasant and I would hunt these frequently. There was a house bordered on two sides by 2 of these sections. She had 40 acres and had her house up against a corner of two of these catty-corner sections. She was rabidly anti hunting and would post these sections of PUBLIC LANDS no trespassing as if they were her own. I would have my LEO go out and pull the signs and write her warning citations. After the 4th or 5th time and after hearing from locals she would run out to somebody that was hunting out there screaming and yelling and telling them they had to leave, I was tired of it.

So I called my LEO and had him standing by a few miles away on a Saturday. I went out there and started to hunt, NOT near the property line when she jumped on a quad and drove over and started to berate me. I simply called my LEO on my cell and had him write her three citations....using a quad off of established trails, for improperly trying to eject me and illegally posting public lands. She took it to federal court and the judge simply issued her a warning hand slap.

It did nothing to deter her. So I went again with a buddy, this time with my LEO and a F&G cop standing by. She did the same thing, obviously having learned nothing. Federal citations issued, F&G citation issued for hunter harassment.

This time I went to the court hearings and made sure my LEO was there and that the prosecutor knew we were there to testify. The Federal Magistrate was less than lenient this time, fining the crap out of her for each offense.

I went also to the State hearing, figuring since it was a first offense, she would get a pass. Boy, was I surprised. The fine and probation was even more stringent than the federal.

Thus ended the saga of Bitchin' Betty (as we called her). It never happened again while I was there the next 6 years. Moral to the story, there is a right way and wrong way to deal with these idiots. Avoid the confrontation...you have a weapon and they don't and any liberal social warrior judge will likely see you as the aggressor. Engage your local LEO, know what the laws are and use them to your advantage and be persistent.

 

[waksupi]

I did at one time many years ago, nearly shoot a woman. I was hunting private property, and one evening right at the end of shooting light, a real nice buck walked down the trail about 75 yards ahead of me. Too dark for me to want to risk a shot, so I went back the next evening.
At just about the same time I saw a grey shape coming through the screen of trees. I had all the slack taken out of the trigger, waiting for the buck to hit an opening. All of a sudden, a black lab came trotting out, followed by a woman in grey sweats.
Scared the hell out of me, and I gave her a heart felt lecture on trespassing, and not wearing orange during hunting season. She informed me she wasn't hunting, and didn't have to wear orange. I told her that wouldn't do her much good if she got shot when somewhere she had no business being.

Considering most of us carry phones now, it may be a good thing if you see someone approaching to get the phone out, and start doing a video.