Hunter vs. Shooter

[USMA65]

Years ago I shot competitively, large bore, up to 1000 yards. We used M-1's with stock sights, and did quite well. When I started duck hunting I gunned everywhere from the pin oak flats of the Arkansas prairie to the large lake shores of N Mississippi. Over the years I grew as a hunter...I thought. For a period of time the thrill of seeing ducks funneling into a hole cut in the woods, and offering a 15 yard shot, was tempered by the desire to see just how far away a deer could be before my cannon could drop it. The former lost its' thrill because it was absolutely no challenge. The latter began to also be no challenge because it required nothing of me except a good sight picture and a steady squeeze of the trigger. In short I was beginning to sense that I really was not hunting. Lost were the skills our forefathers had developed; replaced by the automatic shotgun, the laser range finder and the WSM loads of today. As I got older I was no longer "mad" at the game, and did not have to prove my virility by a full game bag. Seeing an elk fall to another hunter at 987 yards was the end of my fascination with the modern systems. That was when I started "reverting" to the weapons of old. Hopefully along the way I will learn a little history and a little more about myself. There was a point, a line in the sand of my mind, that when crossed, just did not feel right anymore. It has been a lot to overcome, because, after all, I was not trained this way, but, oh, the joys of blackpowder.

 

[Rev_William]

One of the reasons I mostly do ML or primative archery

 

[Bill Hall]

I think most of us are on similar journeys. I remember the last buck I killed with my .270, about a 200 yard shot. As soon as I saw the small herd, the buck put his head behind a bush and fed on the other side for about 15 minutes. I had plenty of time to get in my Marine Corps sitting position, adjust the sling for a tight position, and get the scope picture just right for when he stepped out from behind the bush. I felt like a sniper watching his target from afar. When the deer stepped out, I still waited a while before pulling the trigger. Just seemed too easy.

I laugh at my dad, he loves to tell yarns of his long range deer kills, which in reality are rare due to all his misses :idunno: . I finally told him one day, "ya know dad, you brag about how far you have shot deer, and I brag about how close I shoot them". I know which one means more to me. :thumbsup: Bill

 

[Gobbletn]

I'm 51, just completed my firs build from Cabin Creek, next build from Jim Chambers then I'm on my own on stock/ barrel in letting! I agree, I hunt turkeys and this will bring back that historical meaning to hunting that our founding fathers began. Go read "One Mans War"... That started me on this journey...

 

[roundball]

Went through that same kind of evolution myself..."if I could see it I could kill it"...I think a lot of hunters cross that line and either get into a more challenging aspect of hunting or go off in another hobby direction altogether.

In fact, every hunting season and year round weekend range trip in the past 20 years this year has been has been done exclusively with Flintlock rifles & smoothbores...most everything else has been sold off now

 

[jeffdrown]

I love any kind of primitive hunting. I have for many years hunted with my 50 cal. hawken's I'm going on 44 years with traditional bows and selfbows with stone pointed arrows for my hunting. Now I'm enjoying the "smooth bore" What a mindful journey !

 

[Kapow]

On top of everything else it is very visual. A front row seat, if you like as opposed to sitting way up the back trying to see what's going on through glasses. You are part of the delivery, not detached from it. everything about it is better. The photos are better too, striking old guns against fallen game.

 

[roundball]

In fact, every hunting season and year round weekend range trip in the past 20 years this year has been has been done exclusively with Flintlock rifles & smoothbores...most everything else has been sold off now

CORRECTION:
Noticed after the 'edit timer' had expired that the word Flintlock should have been Muzzleloader.
(8 years caplocks, 12 years Flintlocks...not 20 years Flintlocks)

 

[Kentuckywindage]

You dont think shooting a deer or any animal at 1000 yards is a challenge?

 

[silly goose]

The challenge would only be the shot. There would be no hunt. Would your breathing change to see an animal at 1000 yards? Doesn't your heart skip a beat when quarry just appears, maybe 15 yards away, and you wonder "how did he get there?" I'm guessing this is something most folks progress towards. No doubt, there is considerable skill in making long shots, but where is the hunt?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Some see it as simply a marksmanship problem perhaps coupled with a handload/reloading problem.

We should be careful though about labeling such as "not hunting", for it's a debate about aesthetics, which are always subjective. A person who never gets beyond reaching out long distance to harvest game may not be everybody's method, but it's still hunting.

I enjoy the amusing situations one sometimes sees on hunting shows where the hunters are in an enclosed tower, looking over several hundred yards of fields, and at 300 yards are going to engage an animal and whisper during the entire segment.

LD

 

[roundball]

We should be careful though about labeling such as "not hunting", for it's a debate about aesthetics, which are always subjective.

Sounds like you've jumped into the end of a thread...his explanation and point was very clear in his opening post, describing his evolution over the years...how "he" came to feel about it...just as I and many others have gone through those same phases
:v

 

[USMA65]

Respectfully, you fail to see my point. The challenge is in technique and equipment....not in hunting skill. There is a difference between hunting and shooting. To put it bluntly, sniper techniques do not translate to the enjoyment I wanted in my outdoor experience for the rest of my life. I shot enough "targets" at ranges that sometimes amazed me, but I never got the rush I get when a deer is 20 yards away and I have succeeded in inserting myself into his environment without his knowledge, sight, hearing and smell all entering the equation. You may be different, and that's okay. To each his own (challenges).

 

[USMA65]

We should be careful though about labeling such as "not hunting", for it's a debate about aesthetics, which are always subjective.

Sounds like you've jumped into the end of a thread...his explanation and point was very clear in his opening post, describing his evolution over the years...how "he" came to feel about it...just as I and many others have gone through those same phases
:v

Thank you roundball

 

[VEARL]

My very first BP rifle was a T.C. Hawkin in 45 Cal.
I searched and read more, just so I could shoot that rifle accurately. I was about 27 yrs old then and there was no one around to answer any questions, nor were there any computers for asking on any forums.
I hunted with that rifle with a feeling that possibly our forefathers had when they were hunting. Know your rifle, what it is capable of and what you are capable of.
On harvesting my first deer with it, I felt more in touch with hunting than anytime before. I had to get closer and put that RB where I needed it to go.
That first rifle started me down the long road of owning and shooting muzzleloading rifles. I do not have any modern rifles, nor do I have a need for one. Pefectly happy with pure lead and white smoke.

 

[roundball]

My very first BP rifle was a T.C. Hawkin in 45 Cal.
I searched and read more, just so I could shoot that rifle accurately. I was about 27 yrs old then and there was no one around to answer any questions, nor were there any computers for asking on any forums.
I hunted with that rifle with a feeling that possibly our forefathers had when they were hunting. Know your rifle, what it is capable of and what you are capable of.
On harvesting my first deer with it, I felt more in touch with hunting than anytime before. I had to get closer and put that RB where I needed it to go.
That first rifle started me down the long road of owning and shooting muzzleloading rifles. I do not have any modern rifles, nor do I have a need for one. Pefectly happy with pure lead and white smoke.

An excellent example of what I think happens to a lot who wind up in this world of traditional muzzleloading...
:thumbsup:

 

[WH .50]

Years ago I shot competitively, large bore, up to 1000 yards. We used M-1's with stock sights, and did quite well. When I started duck hunting I gunned everywhere from the pin oak flats of the Arkansas prairie to the large lake shores of N Mississippi. Over the years I grew as a hunter...I thought. For a period of time the thrill of seeing ducks funneling into a hole cut in the woods, and offering a 15 yard shot, was tempered by the desire to see just how far away a deer could be before my cannon could drop it. The former lost its' thrill because it was absolutely no challenge. The latter began to also be no challenge because it required nothing of me except a good sight picture and a steady squeeze of the trigger. In short I was beginning to sense that I really was not hunting. Lost were the skills our forefathers had developed; replaced by the automatic shotgun, the laser range finder and the WSM loads of today. As I got older I was no longer "mad" at the game, and did not have to prove my virility by a full game bag. Seeing an elk fall to another hunter at 987 yards was the end of my fascination with the modern systems. That was when I started "reverting" to the weapons of old. Hopefully along the way I will learn a little history and a little more about myself. There was a point, a line in the sand of my mind, that when crossed, just did not feel right anymore. It has been a lot to overcome, because, after all, I was not trained this way, but, oh, the joys of blackpowder.

I never shot competitively,but other than that these are pretty much my experiences exactly.I too enjoyed many duck hunts where it seemed,when "things were right" the barrel wouldn't cool off. I too enjoyed long range "sniping" of mostly groundhogs but every once in a while,deer as well. It was not about the hunt and whether or not I could kill the deer,but whether or not I could make the shot.I too "outgrew" this aspect of the game and turned to the older ways through archery and muzzleloading,muzzleloading being my favorite.Some of my friends that love to hunt,but do so with modern rifles and inlines poke fun at me about hunting with my traditional ML's,but when I come out with a nice buck by the horns I just smile and tell them that next year,I'm gonna try a fly swatter and a butcher knife,this deer huntin' stuff is just too easy. That shuts them up quick!! :rotf:

 

[Spikebuck]

My journey has been a bit different in that I started with traditional bowhunting 40 years ago and did that for 25 years exclusively before adding muzzleloading to the mix. I've just always had this feeling that the animals deserved more of a chance and the excitement is really in very close encounters...and if face-to-face on the ground, even better (though I do use treestands too).

I have never had even the slightest desire to use modern firearms at all. My father's version of hunting was that it's work. You go out and kill something as quickly and "efficiently" as possible and get it over with. How I ignored that influence at the age of 12 and started bowhunting the first year I could hunt alone is still something I wonder about to this day. :hmm: It's just always felt right to do it the hard way. My Dad is 89 now and still shakes his head at the way I do it, but I know he's proud because the pictures of me and deer are all over his house!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I appreciate marksmanship. I have a small farm - chickens, turkeys and sheep - and I keep a single-shot scoped .223 REM by the back door for garden and barn marauders. My best with a 4x scope is a coyote at 350 yards with crossed-sticks. I also used to do a lot of woodchuck shooting at extended ranges.

But when and where I deer hunt the places I frequent afford 40 to 50 yard shots; often 15 or less. Close and intimate. Not sure if I chose those places because I like traditional muzzleloaders or I chose traditional muzzleloaders because I like those places.

 

[jethro224]

Hunter vs Shooter... :hmm:

I call myself a hunter but I guess there are some who would call me a shooter. I have shot deer at considerably farther distances than 100 yards and would do it again if the shot feels right.

BUT I regularly get VERY close to deer that I don't shoot.

This past deer season I hunted with flintlocks only and from the ground only. On opening day @ 7:30 a decent size 8 point buck stood broadside at 15 yards right in front of me and I let him walk. During the season I saw dozens of deer at distances of @ 10 FEET to over 200 yards (it was a good spot).

After passing several easy close shots on small to medium racked bucks I shot a lone doe at @ 45 yards. Saw one good buck at @ 75 yards but couldn't get the shot I wanted due to brush. Toward the end of the season I shot another big doe at 99 paces.

So, I do get close to deer but I also take some long shots at 100+ yards. Hunter or Shooter? :idunno:
IMHO traditional muzzleloading rifles and PRB are considerably more effective than a lot of folks give them credit for. If I know where my rifle hits "way out there", and have confidence that I can make the shot, and that's the deer I decide to shoot, ... kBOOM!

That said, lately it has seemed pretty easy to fill a tag. Maybe I need to switch to smoothbore only...