Hunting load for a 1853 Enfield

[asabai]

I need help trying to get some accuracy out of my reproduction 1853 3 band Enfield. I’m hoping to be able to shoot deer out to a maximum 100 yards, likely 50-75 yards. I have tried .575 minnes from Dixie, but the quality was poor, and I might have put too much powder behind them because they hit the target broadside at 25 yards. Round balls would be ok, but I would rather use conicals. No matter what I do I am shooting about 14 inches too high, but I know how to fix that. What powder charge would you recommend? Have any of you used one of these rifles, or one like it for deer hunting?

 

[dgold]

Are you shooting mini's out of it and are you using pure lead?

 

[rebel727]

Those minies should work fine with 90-100 grs. of powder. Mine does. Maybe you're not using enough powder to flare the skirt into the rifling.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Start with 60 grains of 3Fg powder, and then work your way up to 90-100 grains. Use a chronograph. That skirt at the bottom of the minie is suppose to expand and fill the grooves to both seal the gases, and spin the bullet. I would think that 60 grains would be the minimum you could use to get that skirt to expand quickly. As to elevation, sounds like you need a taller front sight. Most rear sights can't be adjusted low enough to overcome that kind of rise.

Try a PRB again, but use a thicker patch, and then check the fired patches on the ground to see that they are not burning up. A good lubed patch of pillow ticking, or even old denim should give fine results in your rifle.

 

[dgold]

I asked the question about mini's and pure lead because when I first got mine I got little accuracy. I found out later it was because I was using alloy (melted down hard shot) and the skirt was not filling the rifling. Just a thought.

 

[asabai]

I have tried using 60-100 gr. of 2f. The mines are made of soft lead, they came in a pile in a box and some of the skirts were dented. There was also air pockets in the hollow were expansion is supposed to take place. My dad gave me a box of saboted bullets, but that is not what I want to use, had the same problem with them hitting broadside. Another note on the minnes, I can throw them all the way down to the powder with a clean bore, I know it is supposed to be easy to load these things after they get fouled up, but this seems too easy. Broadside 58 cal mines would make for a nasty wound channel, but I would like to shoot beyond 15 yards.

Thanks for the tips I’ll give them a try.

 

[John Strong]

You might want to try a .580 minie. Your bore could be a little oversize. There is a 460 grain .580 lyman mold that may work for you.

 

[roundball]

Sure would be interesting to see what would happen with the following:

100-110grns Goex 2F
.62cal Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" lubed pillow ticking
Hornady .575/280grn ball

:grin:

 

[rebel727]

Sure would be interesting to see what would happen with the following:

100-110grns Goex 2F
.62cal Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" lubed pillow ticking
Hornady .575/280grn ball

:grin:

I may give that a try sometime but why a .62 cal. wad?

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu want that wad to give a very good seal over the powder, and with a round ball, there is a tendancy of the soft wad to be pushed forward around the edges. With the oversized wad, you are likely to get the best seal. If you are adverse to buying oversized wads, then buy an over powder Card wad, that is hard, and 1/8" thick, to use under the PRB. I do think that everyone's suggestion that you try a larger ball size, such as the .580 is right there. Most people just accept whatever the manufacturer says in the caliber or bore size of your gun, and don't ever measure it. Most wouldn't know how to measure it, or have the equipment to do so. If you are getting the lousy kind of accuracy you claim with a PRB and the loads suggested, I think the very next thing to do is measure that bore. See a gunsmith if you don't know how. Almost invariably, you will find that your bore is oversized, and you need to use larger sized projectiles. I have learned this lesson 4 times in my life, and I suspect I will learn it again before I am through. :hmm:

 

[asabai]

I am guessing that I do have an oversize bore. The quality of few of the parts of the rifle are not what I expect for what the rifle cost, but there is an awful lot of steel and walnut in one of these. I wouldn’t doubt that tolerances for the bore were not very fine. I will give these ideas a try and get back to everyone after I order the necessary components. Thanks

 

[roundball]

Sure would be interesting to see what would happen with the following:

100-110grns Goex 2F
.62cal Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" lubed pillow ticking
Hornady .575/280grn ball
:grin:

I may give that a try sometime but why a .62 cal. wad?

If a wad is good to act as a firewall, add more lube, and improve sealing...my belief is it should follow that an even tighter fitting wad should do all those things even better...no science, just my personal conclusion...I've used the next larger caliber size wad for years...when I pick them up off the ground at the range, I can see tiny little 'gear tooth' marks around the edges indicating to me that the fire & pressure is forcing the oversize wad out into the grooves...doesn't do that with caliber size wads.

I only use them with hunting loads, not light target loads, and the only consideration is that they don't just drop into the bore like a caliber size wad does...I squeeze them slightly to push them into the muzzle flat...and if in the final analysis the larger wads don't offer any benefit over caliber size wads, no harm done anyway

 

[rebel727]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

[asabai]

Sure would be interesting to see what would happen with the following:

100-110grns Goex 2F
.62cal Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" lubed pillow ticking
Hornady .575/280grn ball

:grin:

Well I am oedering all this stuff as well as Lyman .577 improved minie, we shall see what happens.

Thanks again

 

[roundball]

Sure would be interesting to see what would happen with the following:

100-110grns Goex 2F
.62cal Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" lubed pillow ticking
Hornady .575/280grn ball

:grin:

Well I am oedering all this stuff as well as Lyman .577 improved minie, we shall see what happens.

Thanks again

:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Rusty: If you have access to a caliper, you can measure the inside of your barrel at the muzzle and get a fairly good reading on its bore diameter. ( land to land) The other way is to hammer an oversized soft piece of lead or ball down the barrel and then pull it out, and measure the lands and groove left on it. I would not invite anyone to dry ball a barrel, but you can put 5 grains of 4Fg powder down behind it, seat the slug on the powder and shoot it out into a stack of newspapers and recover it pretty much intact. I have slugged the barrel on modern rifles, where I have access to the breech, but I have also waited until I did dry ball my ML and then used a micrometer to measure the slug one I pulled it from the barrel.

Some barrels have odd numbers of lands and grooves, and then you need a barrel mike to measure them. There is a gentleman in Virginia who offers this service free, All you have to do is send him a slug taken from your barrel for him to measure. I would take a .580 diameter round ball, give it a tap to fatten it in one plane, and then hammer it into the muzzle of the gun barrel. While it is in sight of the muzzle, I would screw in the ball puller jag I have and then pull it back out, to get my measurements. Put a witness mark on the slug, and put it aside. If you ever need to polish the barrel, that slug will work wonders with some valve grinding compound, or JB Bore Cleaner. All you would have to do is wind it back on your jag, line up the witness mark so you set it into the barrel so the lands and grooves line up, put your valve compound, or JB bore cleaner on the slug, and run the slug down the barrel, and then back and forth to work out a rough spot.

 

[jan buck]

i see you live in oshkosh, i'm not to far from there [waupaca]. i have a .58 zouave. my rifle shoots high too. but no key holes. what i use is the lee real bullet. its a 440 grain bullet . this is cast. puts a nice big hole in the target. the front sight is way to low on these guns. have yet to find a rear sight low enough. this bullet is accurate, just hits high. good luck. chopper

 

[asabai]

Since I have been thinking about this lately I took a close look at my rear sight, and it is not sitting as low as it should. It sits about where the 200 yard elevation even though it is set at 100. I loosened the screw that holds the spring down on sight and that lowered the sight to where it should be. However it is now loose and easily moves up and down. I am not sure how to remedy this problem. Maybe your zouave is having the same problem if it has a similar style sight.