Hunting pouch leather question

[htredneck]

Is 3 - 4 ounce smoke tanned deer hide heavy enough for use on a medium to large sized hunting pouch? The pouch I have in mind will have an unsecured front flap with a couple of small pockets on the face as well as inside...

 

[Stophel]

It can be done, and has been done, but it will be a bit soft and floppy and stretchy, acting more like stretchy fabric than leather. Elk hide would do better, but you've got what you've got! I would suggest that after it is complete, to soak the far out of it with a neatsfoot oil/beeswax mixture (heavy on the beeswax). Warm it up, soak it in GOOD. Not only will this waterproof it to a fair degree, it will also make it a bit stiffer. Just try it on a scrap piece of leather and see how you like it. :wink:

I recently made myself a tinder bag out of some old cheap screaming yellow somewhat-brain-tanned-looking buckskin (not the familiar slick, rubbery surface stuff we all know and love). Just a simple tube with a welted seam and one open end. I dyed it with Ritberry juice dark brown, and waxed it 'til I couldn't stand to wax it anymore. Seems good and has a very nice texture and appearance.

 

[BrownBear]

Huh....

Posted to this thread a couple of days ago, as did several others. Now that's all gone.

Long and short of what I said-

For larger bags, lots of guys go with 4-5oz. The thicker leather will certainly be a help if you're going to load much weight into the bag. If you're making smaller bags to be reversed after sewing, 3-4oz is easier to work with and gives fine results. The thin 2-3 oz leather is fine for really small bags, but won't take much weight at all without sagging.

 

[crockett]

Should be fine however if you feel it is a little thin then consider making a cloth lined pouch. It is very easy. You can use pillow ticking or a similar fabric and after you cut out the leather parts use contact cement. barge cement, or rubber (best) cement to glue fabric to the inside of each part. Then just sew up as usual. The result is a thicker material and if you pick a light colored cloth then small parts inside the pouch show up well and are easier to find.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Crocket,

That sounds interesting. Have you ever done it by using the cloth as a simple, non-glued, lining to the pouch, sewn only to the inside of the edge of the pouch? I wonder if it was thick fabric if that wouldn't lessen the stress on the leather and thus lessen the stretch of the leather, without using a modern cement.

:idunno:

LD

 

[tenngun]

I made a bag for a friend out of soft deer skin. Finding it very soft and not holding its shape well I made a gusset out of raw hide with the soft leather on the front and back. Then the flap I fitted a rawhide piece that was 1/2 as wide as the gusset allowing the flap to fold over and lift off the bag with ease but still protected the bag without bunching.

 

[Billnpatti]

I made a bag from commercially tanned deer hide. When I first made it, I did not line it and quickly found it to be too soft and floppy. I took it apart and added a cotton fabric lining. The fabric that I chose was washed pillow ticking. It gave the bag a better shape and it was a good bit less floppy. I still prefer a bag that I purchased that was made of about 4 to 5 oz. cow hide. It holds its shape better and I can find things more easily than I can in my lined deer hide bag.

 

[htredneck]

I am going to attempt combining a couple or three different bag designs since I have yet to find one that jumps out and yells 'buy me'. Thanks for the suggestions but I really don't want to do a lined bag. I am guessing it will wind up in 10" x 8" range or maybe just a shade bigger. I also want it to have a leather shoulder strap, not woven.

I have a habit of carrying more than needed, plus sticking no telling what else in it. I am also kind of anal about easily finding or getting to whatever it is I am after, which is the reason for the pockets.

I have access to a good 20+ square foot of oil tanned cow hide that is supposedly 5/6 ounce. I was thinking if that is too heavy, possibly sanding the rough side to thin it...

 

[Stophel]

That's a fairly large bag. 4oz. "vegetable tanned" cowhide is perfect for a shot bag (IF you can find any!). 5-6 oz is ok, 3 oz is workable, but better for small stuff. I HATE woven shoulder straps (actually, I hate shoulder straps, period). They're slick and the bag will swing around bad. That 5-6oz leather is just right for a strap.

 

[crockett]

L.D.- I've done it both ways. When you use the rubber cement you create a laminated leather/cloth material and the coating of rubber cement is sort of a water barrier. The laminate is very tough strong.
To be pc I made another using hide glue and I oiled up the outside leather. I "misted" the leather to simulate a light rain and okay. I then really soaked the bag and the hide glue separated however later, when the bag dried out- it re-glued itself together.
In the interest of being pc I called a bunch of folks and as best as I could figure there were not that many original bags with a lining but those that did had a lot of stitching. On the front panel there might be a decorative stitching of an elk, etc. and that stitching in the middle of the panel kept the cloth in place without glue. On the back, the straps sewn through both leather and cloth liner kept all in place. I never got black and white answers but the impression I got was the PC method was no glue and just stitching to hold a liner in place.
Some bags have cutouts with a colored back. These can be in shapes of 8 point hunter stars, crescent moons, etc. All things that can be incorporated with a cloth liner to hold the liner in place.
Incidentally, if you don't use glue the way to keep the cloth in place is to "baste" or rough sew it to the matching leather piece and as you sew the bag the basting is removed as the permanent stitching is done.

 

[BrownBear]

...oil tanned cow hide that is supposedly 5/6 ounce.

Actually that's a very good thickness for oil tanned in a bag. I made a fairly large one (like your 8x10") using 4-5 oz oil tanned and it was too light for even moderate loads. You shouldn't have any trouble reversing such a big bag when using 6-7 oz oil tanned either. I really like gussets in mine, which makes it even easier to turn, easier to get your hand in and out, and helps it hold lots of stuff, too.

One word of advice- If you're using that oil tanned for the strap, pre-stretch it before cutting to length!

 

[Artificer]

One word of advice- If you're using that oil tanned for the strap, pre-stretch it before cutting to length!

Definite :thumbsup: to that!

Also, if you like to "pre-break in" the leather that goes over your shoulder (even with Veg Tan) it is best to do that, as well, before cutting the final lengths of the strap or straps if you use two pieces like I prefer to do.

Gus

 

[htredneck]

The shoulder strap will definitely be two pieces to provide for adjustment. How much stretch can be expected from oil tanned leather?

I am not 'attached' to oil tanned. My goal is to get a bag that looks good but not new either. The oil tanned that I have at my disposal looks 'older' and changes appearance when the leather is worked. This is a picture of a friend's bag that I have always liked. He had it made a long time ago and if the maker told him what the leather weight or type was, he has long forgotten. The appearance of the leather is what I would love to achieve in the end...

 

[Artificer]

How much stretch can be expected from oil tanned leather?

That all depends on what part of the hide the straps are cut from, the thickness of the leather and the "Temper" of the particular hide. Closer to the center of the belly and the straps stretch more. Closer to the center of the back and they stretch less.

Oh, the shooting bag in your picture looks like Veg Tanned leather to me, but photo's can play tricks on the eyes.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

I am not 'attached' to oil tanned. My goal is to get a bag that looks good but not new either. The oil tanned that I have at my disposal looks 'older' and changes appearance when the leather is worked. This is a picture of a friend's bag that I have always liked. He had it made a long time ago and if the maker told him what the leather weight or type was, he has long forgotten. The appearance of the leather is what I would love to achieve in the end...

Yup, that's oil tanned. The neat thing about it, it gets that "scruffy" look when rubbed or scraped, but with rubbing or a little heat, you can return it to as-new look. Mine come back from a day in the brush looking like they were dragged behind a horse. A few moments buffing with a rag, or seconds with a hair dryer for really bad scuffing, and they're back to new. Here is how Tandy describes it.

Also neat, you'll be real happy your bag is oil tanned if you do much hunting in the wet like I do.

 

[Artificer]

That is interesting. Thank you.

I made my second shooting pouch out of oiled cowhide in the mid 70's, but that leather looks quite a bit different than the oiled leather in Tandy's or other links I looked at. The thickness and temper of that hide was exactly what I wanted for a semi-hard pouch that I could put a removable loading block in or the accessories to shoot either my Brown Bess or Golden Age flintlock rifle.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hey thanks for the information on the various procedures and the assembly tips. :thumbsup:

LD

 

[htredneck]

The climate in Missouri isn't exactly wet, and contrary to popular belief, I do actually have sense enough to come in out of the rain. I have been known to stay out through the occaissional storm though. That being said, are there any real pros or cons between vegetable or oil tanned leather that I should take into consideration or be concerned with?

 

[BrownBear]

...are there any real pros or cons between vegetable or oil tanned leather that I should take into consideration or be concerned with?

If the flaps are wide enough and long enough to really cover the bag opening, they'll stay mostly dry inside. Between veg tanned and oiled, the biggest difference I notice is that the veggies get pretty soggy on a long day in the rain, even if a good design helps them keep the contents dry. A day or so later that veg tan is real stiff when it dries, but a little bend, fold, spindle and mutilate brings them back to soft again. Oil tan dries quick and stays soft.

 

[Ridge]

Crocket,

That sounds interesting. Have you ever done it by using the cloth as a simple, non-glued, lining to the pouch, sewn only to the inside of the edge of the pouch? I wonder if it was thick fabric if that wouldn't lessen the stress on the leather and thus lessen the stretch of the leather, without using a modern cement.

:idunno:

LD

I use a water soluble, spray adhesive. I sew the pouch inside out and then soak it in water before flipping it right side out.

By the time I'm done there is no adhesive left.