Hunting with Smoothbore

[Nuthatch]

I recently got a bug in my ear to try a flintlock. I've been shooting a percussion Hawken for a few years and it is definitely the most fun of my rifles to shoot.

Since I already have a rifle that I use for medium game, I thought a smoothbore flintlock might be a good addition to the quiver since it would give me the option of hunting with shot for things like turkey, upland game and small game as well as big game at close ranges. Here in CA, we are limited to lead-free shot so I'd be hoping to use steel BBs or some other non-toxic alternative while hunting birds & small game.

I don't really care all that much about authenticity or flash. My percussion rifle is a simple Traditions Woodsman that shoots well enough for me. It's rough but it goes *BOOM* reliably and hits where I'm aiming, so long as I do my part. I know people love their custom guns. But I've been well-served by buying well-made budget equipment in the past and look to continue to do that going forward. I don't ever want to skimp on safety. But I take pride in what I do with my weapons, not what they are.

So my first question is whether a .60-cal (0.58-0.62 somewhere) would be adequate for my purposes. For turkey, I like to get them within 20 yards but it would be nice if the shot was still effective out to about 25 in case I make a distance estimation error. What kind of pattern do these things hold?

My second question is on the best of the budget lines. I was looking at Veteran Arms and a couple others around the $700-800 range. As a hunter ed instructor, I can get a Traditions 70-caliber percussion musket kit for a little less than that (no flintlock version, unfortunately). Are the Traditions components any better than the other budget options out there? Thoughts on a Traditions kit vs budget finished rifle?

 

[Stony Broke]

I would think a .62 Ca. in the 700-800 range would be a reasonable deal. Custom guns in those calibers can get pretty pricey. I have used a Traditions rifle...back when they were pretty new on the market and it did it's job just fine....but I'm sure there are others that will do just as good. You can hunt other game with a round ball just fine with one as well, just not as far away as a rifled barrel.

 

[Nuthatch]

Nice little piggy there. I'm assuming the "rifle" in the photo is a traditions 60-cal? Looks pretty short & handy.

I limit my shots with the woodsman to about 80 yards and have only taken one deer with it so far. The main limit I see isn't the ballistics so much as having to use open sights under field conditions. Is the smoothbore more of a 50-yard gun?

 

[Historian]

Word of caution when it comes to muzzle loading smooth bores in any gauge/cal, steel shot is about worthless with the low velocity they produce. Steel shot cripples in muzzle loaders. Period. Since you live in CA it would have to be bismuth shot for small game. 10 pounds will run you about 150.00 - 160.00 dollars. As for turkey stick with 20 ga or larger. Also stay away from plastic wads! Good luck and have fun. If you need help working up loads PM me.

 

[Nuthatch]

Historian - is steel still not a viable option when going up to larger shot? And wouldn't some kind of wad help protect the bore -- plastic or even just a large patch to encase the shot?

 

[andy52]

I would think a .62 Ca. in the 700-800 range would be a reasonable deal. Custom guns in those calibers can get pretty pricey. I have used a Traditions rifle...back when they were pretty new on the market and it did it's job just fine....but I'm sure there are others that will do just as good. You can hunt other game with a round ball just fine with one as well, just not as far away as a rifled barrel.

I like that little gun.

 

[Stony Broke]

I like that little gun.

I used it for years and shot deer and hogs with it and sometimes as a shotgun, but I got an offer on it and away it went !!

 

[Stony Broke]

Nice little piggy there. I'm assuming the "rifle" in the photo is a traditions 60-cal? Looks pretty short & handy.

I limit my shots with the woodsman to about 80 yards and have only taken one deer with it so far. The main limit I see isn't the ballistics so much as having to use open sights under field conditions. Is the smoothbore more of a 50-yard gun?

It was a custom made 62 caliber. After I had it made, I eventually had the barrel shortened and added a rear sight.

 

[user 49399]

I squirrel hunt with a .62 caliber Fusil de Chasse from Loyalist Arms. Took a bunch of squirrels with it. It ain’t failed me yet.

 

[Brokennock]

A 20 gauge, bore diameters seem to range around .615 to .620, should do just about anything you need it to do in North America,,,, if you do your part.
How far is up to your abilities, load development, and practice.
Check local hunting regulations before purchasing, some states have minimum requirements for certain game. For example, here in Connecticut, minimum gauge for turkey hunting us 20 guage.
While I'm sure a bore of .58 would do the job,,,, if I do my part,,,, that won't matter to law enforcement or the judge.

 

[tenngun]

You might take a look at Loyalist arms north west or English trade gun, and the French fusil de chase. They also offer a Ranger Brown Bess and French carbine in .62x
Traditions is a good entry level gun but their flintlocks are a little light. The bigger locks on the loyalist arms will be a bit easier for a newbie to learn.
Check out You Tube. One of our members has a new series on flintlock basics. Duelist 1954

 

[toot]

remember that all shot guns DBL or SINGLE BARELLED are smooth bored weapons, made for shot & pumpkin balls / slugs now a days.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I recently got a bug in my ear to try a flintlock. I've been shooting a percussion Hawken for a few years and it is definitely the most fun of my rifles to shoot.

..., I thought a smoothbore flintlock might be a good addition to the quiver since it would give me the option of hunting with shot for things like turkey, upland game and small game as well as big game at close ranges. Here in CA, we are limited to lead-free shot so I'd be hoping to use steel BBs or some other non-toxic alternative while hunting birds & small game.

I don't really care all that much about authenticity or flash. ...,

So my first question is whether a .60-cal (0.58-0.62 somewhere) would be adequate for my purposes. For turkey, I like to get them within 20 yards but it would be nice if the shot was still effective out to about 25 in case I make a distance estimation error.

So you have the right idea, and at 25 yards, the 20 gauge smoothbores out there will hammer a turkey with the right loading. A 24 gauge will also work, which is just about .58 caliber. Even a .54-.56 smoothie will work

Being in California, the smoothbore solves a lot of projectile problems. Steel shot, or a brass ball will do fine. I would not recommend a large, single, steel ball, as they have the tendency to ricochet.

I have both a Loyalist Arms English Trade Gun AND a Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket. Both are 20 gauge, and both slay squirrels. I have yet to take a deer with either..., nor a turkey..., but I've not tried them for those either. I'd say the Pedersoli product will be lighter, and the lock perhaps just a tad more trouble-free. However it's about 50% higher in cost.

Now since you are not into authenticity, to be honest..., the best bet for you might be to find an inexpensive, used, TC flintlock rifle, or a Lyman, and have it bored out to .55 or .58 smooth. The cost should be well under even a Loyalist Arms English Trade gun.

The advantage of that last suggestion is that you get a good quality factory flintlock, and the used rifle bore condition doesn't matter since you're going to have it bored out fresh and clean. If you picked up a Lyman, they are still in production so replacement parts are not a concern.

LD

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Historian - is steel still not a viable option when going up to larger shot? And wouldn't some kind of wad help protect the bore -- plastic or even just a large patch to encase the shot?

I use Bismuth shot in my Brown Bess when waterfowl hunting, it is soft so it doesn't scar the inside of the barrel. It is really available in BB Shot size and is sold in 4 or 5lb bags for $30USD. I don't like plastic encasements because plastic melts inside your barrel causing a pain in your rump when cleaning, paper works as encasement but tears easily allowing the steel to get at your barrel. Lead, Bismuth and Tungsten work best in the muzzleloaders and steel in the unmentionables.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Nice little piggy there. I'm assuming the "rifle" in the photo is a traditions 60-cal? Looks pretty short & handy.

I limit my shots with the woodsman to about 80 yards and have only taken one deer with it so far. The main limit I see isn't the ballistics so much as having to use open sights under field conditions. Is the smoothbore more of a 50-yard gun?

I have achieved 83 yard accuracy with my Brown Bess but I cheated and made a rear sight for it. Some smoothies have a rear sight on them and you'll see them appear from time to time. Most of the time I won't shoot at an animal more than 60 yards out but I really want them in the 30 to 50 yard range. In my opinion a Military musket is a 50 yard gun and a hunting smoothbore like a Fowler or Fusil de Chasse is a 75+ yard gun (at your own accurate ability). .62-.69 caliber is most common on smoothbore guns because that is 20 and 16 gauge. 12 gauge is .72(I think) and 11 gauge is .75 cal. 10 gauge is the largest legal gauge in most US states and I believe that is .82 cal ( anyone reading this correct me if I'm wrong). .62 cal is enough to take most animals in the US and like everyone is suggesting the Fusil de Chasse is a great start in my opinion, loyalist arms sells them for $600-700 USD pre assembled ready to shoot. If you want a kit gun I recommend the Jim Chambers Pennsylvania Smooth Rifle.

 

[user 49399]

Another advantage to the versatile smooth bore.

 

[tiklikker]

My .62 Cal (20 Ga.) Fusil fin C face-planted my turkey at 30 yards. More than adequate. Haven't tried on deer yet.

 

[Nuthatch]

Now since you are not into authenticity, to be honest..., the best bet for you might be to find an inexpensive, used, TC flintlock rifle, or a Lyman, and have it bored out to .55 or .58 smooth. The cost should be well under even a Loyalist Arms English Trade gun.

The advantage of that last suggestion is that you get a good quality factory flintlock, and the used rifle bore condition doesn't matter since you're going to have it bored out fresh and clean. If you picked up a Lyman, they are still in production so replacement parts are not a concern.

LD

Interesting idea. Showing my ignorance here -- by "boring out," you mean the rifled bore is drilled & made smooth? Seems like that could weaken the bore but maybe it's not removing enough metal to do that? Might be tough to find a gunsmith around here that does that kind of work. Last I checked, there was only one person in town who could just install a front sight on a rifle and he was retiring. The rest just replace modular parts on ARs & other such modern weapons.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

View attachment 93419View attachment 93420Another advantage to the versatile smooth bore.

Is that a homemade cartridge box ? It looks pretty good if it is, I made one for my bess and it definitely isn't anything to brag about in the good looking department.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Interesting idea. Showing my ignorance here -- by "boring out," you mean the rifled bore is drilled & made smooth? Seems like that could weaken the bore but maybe it's not removing enough metal to do that? Might be tough to find a gunsmith around here that does that kind of work. Last I checked, there was only one person in town who could just install a front sight on a rifle and he was retiring. The rest just replace modular parts on ARs & other such modern weapons.

AH Fear Not!

There is a fellow that a lot of the folks here on the forum have sent barrels with damaged bores to and had them bored out to fresh, clean metal. Doing the same thing as suggested, they wanted a smoothbore and found a used rifle with a bad bore at low cost. SOME did it on their second gun, and SOME did it since they came to a point in life where they didn't have the eyesight to reach out 100 yards, and they wanted a gun for 50 yards for deer and up close shots on small game.

One of our members in a chap in England, and quite the avid hunter, and the laws there make it oh so much easier to use a smoothbore, black powder gun, than anything modern. He recently posted about using a bored out .45 rifle to take some birds.

And yes, the rifled portion is drilled out. For some folks with a rifle and a damaged bore they sometimes pay extra and have the barrel re-rifled. The fellow that does this knows how far he can take the barrel before it becomes unsafe.

LD