I found my pet load - but why?

[GregC]

I have been trying to get a good pattern with my Caywood trade gun that is jug choked for weeks nows. I have tried everything from shot cups, to fiber wads, to felt wads, hornets nest. I varied my shot charge from 3/4 oz up to 1 5/8 oz.

Today, at wits end, I went all the way down to 60 grns of 3F. (I had been keeping my powder between 70 and 80 grns). Went I fired that load with 60 grns it was amazing. My pattern was tight. In fact, it was as tight as my 870 remington with a turkey choke and hevi shot. I counted 47 pellets in head and neck at 25 yards. With all other loads I was getting 6-9 hits at best.

So, my turkey hunting load is

60 grns 3F
2 over felt wads
1 5/8 oz #6 shot
2 OS Cards

But why did the lower charge make so much differnce?

 

[August West]

Some guns have a definite sweet spot and it looks like you found it, did you do any penetration tests? It seems it might be a little slow. Chris

 

[GregC]

No, that was my next question....

Is 60 grns enough to kill a turkey?

 

[August West]

I would do the tin can test at the range you will be shooting and if it passes I would hunt with it.

I shoot 60 grs with 1 oz, although I have never shot a turkey with it squirrels around here fear it. Chris

 

[Dave K]

Like August says, the good old tin can is next. Many people seem to think that more is better, but the proof is in the testing. You may want to up the powder now that you have a good pattern and when you do, up the shot amount by the same amount. My heaviest load is 1 1/4oz and around 80gr. in a 12ga. but my usual load is 1 1/8oz and around 72gr. of 2F.I have to convert my answers to gr. as I am used to using drams. It is not how much shot you send at the target, it is how much shot hits the target, with enough force to break bones. If you want to experiment just a little more, use NO cushion at all, for the only 1 shot you will take at a turkey.You really don't need a cushion to carry lube down a barrel, for just one or maybe 2 shots. I can bet, you will be able to up your powder charge if you want to and still have a very tight pattern. Also, if your tin can tests show you need a little more power, back down the amount of shot some. You don't need that much shot, if you have a good pattern. This way you can recover better from the shot to see your target over the barrels. You are getting close, real close, glad to hear you used the advice here to pattern your loads.

 

[August West]

I just had a thought, how big is your pattern board? Chris

 

[Stumpkiller]

More powder, less lead,
Up close, wide spread.

Less powder, more lead,
Shoots far, kills dead.

Supposedly an old English saying. (Told to me by an old Englishman).

 

[Joel/Calgary]

More powder, less lead,
Up close, wide spread.

Less powder, more lead,
Shoots far, kills dead.

Supposedly an old English saying. (Told to me by an old Englishman).

'Tis traditionally cited and generally true for unchoked guns, but chokes complicate the dynamics. And with jug chokes, one can have the additional complication of powder gasses getting into the shot charge unless one uses protection or a long-enough and/or expandible-enough wad column. I think it possible that a smaller charge of 3F may have worked for Greg by producing lower pressure as the shot enters the choke recess.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Very true, less powder and more shot will produce consistantly tighter patterns. Another thought, if you are using 2- 1/2" felt wads try using one perhaps cut it in half. Two half inch wads is a lot of mass, with a heavy charge you're pushing the wads through the shot charge and distorting the pattern.

Snow

 

[GregC]

Let me clarify some things.

I am using the ox yoke 1/8" felt wads, not the thick fiber wads.

I tried everything before "finding" this load. I tried 2F and I tried Bob Spencers "pet" load and Roundball's adaptation of it. I even tried HEVI Shot. Nothing made a difference.

My pattern board is white paper 2' by 3'.

 

[remuse]

I would do the tin can test at the range you will be shooting and if it passes I would hunt with it.
Chris

Is the tin can test looking for actual penetration or serious denting or what?

 

[August West]

Typically a tuna can is used but any heavy gauge tin can will work, soup or vegetable cans, not aluminum soda cans. If the shot penetrates one side at the range game will be shot it is considered strong enough. My personal experience bears this out and I believe for an in the field, seat of the pants test it works well. Of course modern chronographs and ballistics are more accurate but old cans are more plentiful and a heck of a lot cheaper. Chris

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Morning buddy,
I have had the pleasure of Patterning two jug choked 42 inch smoothbores.
I found that the issue with bad patterns with a turkey load of 80grns of ffg is that you are leading the barrel and it as well as the new choke need to be lapped.
I use a fine honing brush by Brownells then hand lapp with neco lapping compound.
I also make sure that I swab between shots as well as lightly oil the barrel after each loading wile patterning.
At 40 yrds I get clean pass through a goex can with one and a quarter ounce of #four and 80 or 90 grns of ffg goex.
Yes I feel 60 grns is fine for 25 yrd trukey hunting but not much further and that is why you choked your gun in the first place.
Leading is a huge issue I have found with a new choke.
Also I have found that FFFG is to abrupt and blows my patterns, stick with FFG and carry a priming horn.

Here is a typical 40 yrds group out of both of my full choked smooth bore as well as penitration test.

 

[BrownBear]

That's good stuff greenmtnboy! Results, rather than theory.

 

[GregC]

Can you please explain to me more on the leading and lapping?

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Can you please explain to me more on the leading and lapping?

Leading is when you lead shot smears it's self to the walls of your barrel caused by a heavy charge and rough bore.
fine steel wool and hoppies #9 will get rid of heavy leading or Louis lead remover from Brownells.
you need a bore light as well to see leading and a rough barrel
for normal leading just swabing between shots usally is fine.
Brownells sells honing brushes you attach to your drill as well as honing oil(a must) for your brushes of different grit.
I hone with a fine brush and then take 250 or 400 grit Neco(get it on line)lapping compound and smear it on a cleaning patch over a shotgun brush and lap your barrel back and forth or my favorite that I also do for my new rifles barrels is to take your R.B. patch around .015 thick and a .600 R.B.(62cal)and smear my compound on said patch start ball and patch into your barrel screw a pall puller into your started ball and saw back and forth.
I start with 220 grit and three applications cleaning the barrel between lapping.
I finish with 400 and three applications and your barrel should now be mirror bright and your leading problem diminished.
:thumbsup: