• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

I'd like to get your opinions on this presumably early Roman miquelet

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
443
Reaction score
466
Location
Covington, VA
I got this on the mail yesterday from Czerny's Auction. I believe it to be original from ca mid-1600s. It has had repairs around the lock and forestock. Interesting that the shape of the Italian miquelet lock inletting seems more modern. I suspect it had one of those early locks with the grotesque face engraved in it. What do you all think?
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20231025_130307940.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130307940.jpg
    6.4 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130314819.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130314819.jpg
    6.6 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130320274.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130320274.jpg
    4.9 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130323522.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130323522.jpg
    5 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130328245.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130328245.jpg
    4.8 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130332023.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130332023.jpg
    3.8 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130339135.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130339135.jpg
    3.6 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130347525.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130347525.jpg
    4.1 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130351701.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130351701.jpg
    4.3 MB
  • PXL_20231025_130355277.jpg
    PXL_20231025_130355277.jpg
    4.2 MB
Hi Flintlock1640

I'm surprised Czerny's offered this as-is on one of their auctions. It indeed appears to be a pistol from Central Italy. And the lock looks like it was what we sometimes call the Roman style miquelet. But I would date this pistol somewhere around the Early to Mid-18th Century. By this time, the lock plate for the Roman locks were taking the shape of typical flintlocks. And the lock mortice shows evidence of this. As well, note the mortice has no cut out for an "internal" mainspring. The mainspring being on the outside of the lock plate on the Roman locks, similar to the Spanish miquelet locks. My guess is that the lock, lock screws, and trigger guard are missing because they were catabolized for use on another gun. Too bad. But more common than you would first imagine. The stamping of "Lazarino" on top of the barrel looks a bit hap-hazard, and is likely a period forgery. Unfortunately, this was a common practice with Italian guns during the period.

Restoration: I suppose the wood stock could be salvaged. If there is anything I've learned about our hobby, it's that most anything can be done given enough time and money thrown at the project. LOL But I like Pathfinder's idea better. Using the existing barrel and hardware to make a custom pistol.
BARREL: The barrel can be sent to Bobby Hoyt to have the breech plug removed and inspected and the bore burnished smooth again. Worse case scenario is a new barrel liner.
LOCK: A Roman style miquelet lock would not be difficult to locate. Czery's has them in their auctions most of the time. And pistol size is easier to locate than shoulder gun size. The Roman locks are common enough that you could probably get one for no more than the cost to have someone assemble a kit from The Rifle Shoppe. Speaking of which, TRS shows they have Italian style lock kits available. Which is another option. Just keep your eyes open for Czerny's auctions (and Herman's also). You will likely see a good condition, original lock in working condition for around $300.00. Just make sure it's pistols sized, which most offered are.
STOCK: I would start with new wood. European walnut - for pistol size - can be had at a reasonable cost. You have the original stock, so you know what it's supposed to look like. Using new wood would likely be much easier than trying to retrofit a lock to the existing mortice, and all the small, tedious work of trying to restore the stock.
TRIGGER GUARD: Would be almost impossible to locate an original that could be used. I've seen iron hardware offered at Czerny's in the past. But very rarely. However, the iron Italian trigger guard from kit #710 in TRS catalog looks like it could be modified and used.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Let us know what you decide to do so we can be on the lookout for you. LOL

Rick
 
I still think engraved iron mounts make some of the best looking gun hardware. Even more so than brass or silver. I can post a Roman lock here if that will help.

Rick
 
Thanks Rick,
Since this appears to be a more modern gun utilizing older parts I'm guessing they also used a more elaborate older style Roman like these from past Czerny's auctions.
1698436006070.png

1698436099258.png


What do you think?
If I chose to build something new using the old parts I guess it doesn't matter if I use miquelet, early flintlock or snaphaunce. I would still keep the old stock of course. It's not bad could just be better.
Regards
Sam
 

Latest posts

Back
Top