Idaho Muzzleloader

[Ttownhunter]

Hello, I am to the form I’m and looking for some advice. To say that I have a love for muzzleloaders is an understatement. I own 5. Only 2 of them are percussion cap guns though. A 50 cal Marksbury and a 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade. Both with open sights.

I have always shot copper bullets. Sabots, Thor bullets and powerbelts. They have worked well for me. My dilemma is that my wife drew a decent muzzleloader mule deer tag in Idaho which requires the use of percussion cap, loose powder, lead round ball or conical and open sight rifle.

I don’t have a problem with these regs except for the bullet part. I was thinking about shooting a conical in the 50 cal Marksbury but I don’t know where to start. Should it have a smooth wall bullet or grooved for lube? Paper wrapped or cloth wad? Do I need to harden the lead bullets? Is there a brand of lead conical that you think performs well?

I was planning on using 100 grains of loose pyrodex. Is that too much? Is there something better?

I appreciate your help. I am really struggling on developing a load that I think will perform like I am used to.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So the problem that you have is that the Markesbery and sabot or powerbelts are not up for discussion on The Forum as the Marksebery is an in-line rifle, and that ammo is also not discussed. The rifle was designed btw as a sabot only rifle (from what sources say) and thus the lead conicals will likely not work well.

Your option would be the .54 Renegade, with its 1:48 twist barrel, it should do very well. A 224 grain lead round ball launched with 80-90 grains of powder should be plenty. You could try 100 grains but ONLY if your Renegade showed some sort of accuracy advantage with that load. It's a mule deer, not a bull moose, so there's no reason to doubt that the rifle with the round ball will do its job. A shoulder shot well placed at 100 yards or less, should fold up the mule deer without worries.

IF you absolutely feel the need for a conical, then something like a 320 grain TC Maxi-Hunter (grooved with lube) is what you may find works well.

LD

 

[dave951]

Ditto on the 54. You don't need gobs of powder. The T/C Maxi is a great bullet. Again, start load development low, work up till you see a tight group. Then stop. More powder won't do anything but ruin the accuracy.

 

[TraderVic]

I shoot a Lyman GPR 54 and have an extra fast twist barrel for using conicals.
Accuracy wise my rifle prefers the T/C Maxi ball (conical) over the "hunter style conical".
I use 100 gr of Goex 2F.
As already mentioned, your 54 rifle should perform just fine, presuming you work up an accurate load and practice with it.

 

[Ttownhunter]

Thanks guys. I will work with the TC. I will try both the round balls and the conicals and see what works best. Thanks again

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Hello, I am to the form I’m and looking for some advice. To say that I have a love for muzzleloaders is an understatement. I own 5. Only 2 of them are percussion cap guns though. A 50 cal Marksbury and a 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade. Both with open sights.

I have always shot copper bullets. Sabots, Thor bullets and powerbelts. They have worked well for me. My dilemma is that my wife drew a decent muzzleloader mule deer tag in Idaho which requires the use of percussion cap, loose powder, lead round ball or conical and open sight rifle.

I don’t have a problem with these regs except for the bullet part. I was thinking about shooting a conical in the 50 cal Marksbury but I don’t know where to start. Should it have a smooth wall bullet or grooved for lube? Paper wrapped or cloth wad? Do I need to harden the lead bullets? Is there a brand of lead conical that you think performs well?

I was planning on using 100 grains of loose pyrodex. Is that too much? Is there something better?

I appreciate your help. I am really struggling on developing a load that I think will perform like I am used to.

Your .54 calibre T/C Renegade is a solid choice. The .54 calibre with a PRB, is my favorite choice for big game, especially elk. My hunting loads run in the 90 to 95 grains of ffg.

You could certainly use a conical bullet…Maxi-balls are great, Lee REAL bullets are another solid choice.

Shooting in-lines is fun, I get that…you’ll find that shooting a patched round ball, with loose powder is a more synergistic process. Embrace the process, the history, and the primitive aspects of the technology and you’ll have a great time…become frustrated with the process, wish the firearm were more like your in-line, and the experience won’t be nearly as enjoyable.

 

[user 48679]

Also, a .54 will be good to have if you stumble across a Grizz......

 

[JamesA]

Also, a .54 will be good to have if you stumble across a Grizz......

Grizzlies have been spotted in the panhandle area and near Salmon. The one spotted near Salmon was caught on a trail camera on or about May 14th, 2022. Carry a can of bear spray....and good luck.

 

[Red Owl]

The choice between a patched round ball and a conical really depends on the distance you plan to shoot. The greater weight of the conical is better at a longer range. On the concial, such were used in the Civil War and the Hawken rifle was sometimes loaded with a "sugarloaf" ball so PC. All things equal, a patched round ball is hard to beat. On the conical fouling after the first shot will usually require swabbing the barrel in order to seat another conical bullet. On a patched round ball you cannot "overload" on powder but 80-90 grains is plenty. More than that- just burning up outside the barrel- waste of powder. On the conical the WEIGHT of the conical runs pressure way up and there are charts you should consult on maximum powder charges.
Conicals leave lead fouling in the bore. Muzzle loaders were really designed for a patched round ball.

 

[Ttownhunter]

Fortunately I will be hunting in SW Idaho and don’t think that they have grizzlies yet. You never know though. It is Idaho.

 

[Ttownhunter]

What you guys are saying makes perfect sense. We will definitely take the Renegade.

Rock Home Isle. I totally understand what you are saying with the nostalgia behind shooting patched round ball. I am good with that. You guy helping me with definitely get me off on the right foot and will help tremendously. Thank you.

Being that it’s a 54 caliber the bullet selection isn’t what it is for a 50. I don’t think it will be a problem finding round balls, but I am not finding any conicals. They must be lead due to the Idaho regs.

What do you guys recommend for 54 caliber round balls and conicals? Everything I have read states that having the right hardness is important for both performance and to minimize fouling when shooting lead.

 

[Brokenbear]

You've already had some good advice but my $.02 ..a .54 patched round ball will anchor a mulie with a boiler room shot placement ..and even off just a tad it will still be yours with a little tracking ..so get comfortable with any bullet from a .54 boiler roomed is a dead mulie ..and any bullet not perfect as in lung only will be a track job but still a dead mulie ..been there done that more than once ..

The patched lead ball will be much more pleasant for the shooter in mind than 300/400 grain maxi-ball of ANYONE'S DESIGN

 

[Idaho Ron]

Idaho muzzleloaders and bullets

 

[Ttownhunter]

You've already had some good advice but my $.02 ..a .54 patched round ball will anchor a mulie with a boiler room shot placement ..and even off just a tad it will still be yours with a little tracking ..so get comfortable with any bullet from a .54 boiler roomed is a dead mulie ..and any bullet not perfect as in lung only will be a track job but still a dead mulie ..been there done that more than once ..

The patched lead ball will be much more pleasant for the shooter in mind than 300/400 grain maxi-ball of ANYONE'S DESIGN

You sold me. I think that your exactly right. So to be clear. 80-90 grains of loose pyrodex and dry cloth patched round ball with the excess cloth cut off before seating. Is that the money load in you guys opinion?

 

[Bad Karma]

Idaho muzzleloaders and bullets

I was thinking, “Deja vu, all over again!”

 

[Mad Professor]

Welcome to the forum.

PRB or conical will do it with the 54. With either it's more important to be accurate.

One conical I didn't see mentioned was the Hornady GP. Those were actually designed for the Thompson barrels.

If you consider getting a drop in fast twist barrel for conicals, read up on Idaho Ron's threads.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You sold me. I think that your exactly right. So to be clear. 80-90 grains of loose pyrodex and dry cloth patched round ball with the excess cloth cut off before seating. Is that the money load in you guys opinion?

No, the money load will require patch lubricant. You do want some lubricant in the patch. A patch lubricant of Track of the Wolf's Mink Oil will lubricate the patch and provide corrosion protection while hunting and not contaminate the powder. You could use a dry patch lubricating process where the patch is dampened with lubricant and left to dry before patching the ball. Mink Oil is easier.

 

[toot]

Welcome.

 

[Brokenbear]

You sold me. I think that your exactly right. So to be clear. 80-90 grains of loose pyrodex and dry cloth patched round ball with the excess cloth cut off before seating. Is that the money load in you guys opinion?

Not a dry patch ..buy a bag of caliber sized patches and make a small heated batch of 50/50 bees wax and olive oil and thoroughly soak the patches ..press out the surplus and alow to "set up" but leave plenty of lube in the patch
Powder and patch thickness are your steering wheel and throttle in tuning a PRB smoke pole
I'd start the lady with ear plugs n ear muffs at 60 grains standing but with a rest ..then wean her from the rest to standing with a lean like a tree
Don't make her the test bed ...You are the test bed ..you are the one who will shoot from a sitting bench rest and introduce incremental increases to the powder charge and different thicknesses of patching material searching for the gun's sweet spot
What you are looking for is of course accuracy, intact (not shredded) fired patches are your friend
Ideally we're looking for minimum 70 gr of powder (since a hunting load) but would not expect a need for more than 80gr and are looking for end of a beverage can 100 yard accuracy
The hunt ..the seal the lubed patch makes will keep moisture from the powder and a new cap each morning and afternoon will keep the ignition in good shape ..I personally do not recommend clearing a charge during the hunt but do recommend the rifle stay outside the tent/camper or in the back of the truck bed in a weather proof case as rapid temperature change are your enemy
Not trying to be a know all but this worked very well with my wife and I hope your wife has the success mine has enjoyed

Be safe ..happy 4th

Bear

 

[slspletskp]

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