Identify this flint rifle

[X Ring]

Pickrd this up a while ago, never seen another.
Pictures are showing any proofs that I can see.
Strong strike, flash hole, smothbore.
Fired a light paper powder charge , functioned flawless.
Let me know what you think , any Ideas or opinions welcome
Thank you

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Belgian. Made for the African trade. probably dates 1900-1950.

 

[Old Sparky]

Does it have a 53-in barrel? I think I have the same one my parents bought it in the late '60s to hang on the mantle. The barrel is still sealed with cosmolane. I really want to get out and shoot it it's a 54 caliber. One day I will. I was thinking of trying it out with some shot. Anyway if it's got the 53-in barrel it's called a long Tom. There is a thread here somewhere that you can find that has some info on it. Keywords for the search are Eagle on the lock plate and 53-in Barrel

 

[Twisted_1in66]

The picture of the barrel sure looks like a smoothbore to me AND it has the architecture of a musket with the wedding bands holding on the barrel. The first rifled muskets came out about the time of the Civil War. Specifically the model 1861 Springfield Rifled Musket, which fired a .58-cal Minié ball. They basically put a rifled barrel on their previous percussion musket. Yours is not an 1861 rifled musket. There was an earlier rifled musket, the Springfield model 1855, but it used paper cap rolls, just like you used to see in toy cap guns as the ignition. That proved unreliable at best, but the model 1861 had very reliable percussion ignition and was the main arm for the Union troops during the Civil War.

The 1853 and 1857 Enfield rifled muskets from England were also rifles on a musket architecture, but again these were percussion cap weapons. I don't know of any flintlock rifled musket, and your gun or rifle is definitely a flintlock. A picture with a light down the barrel would answer that question in a snap. But the one picture you have of the muzzle looks to me to be a smoothbore, which is in keeping with flintlock muskets. If there are "real" proofing marks on it they will be on the barrel, not on the bands that hold the barrel in place. If the light down the barrel shows that it is a smoothbore, I'd recommend posting and inquiry on the Smoothbore section of the forum.

 

[Sam squanch]

African trade gun. Made up into the 1930’s for sale in countries where locals couldn’t afford or were allowed to have modern firearms. Yours has the two piece lock plate, if you are lucky you have the strong leaf spring instead of the coil spring. These were made with mostly old musket parts that governments sold off cheap. They do have a collector following, but they are not a rare item. And fun to shoot if found safe.

 

[Sam squanch]

Many were imported into the US around the bi centennial for decorations with eagles stamped on the locks. Mostly made in Belgium.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

The picture of the barrel sure looks like a smoothbore to me AND it has the architecture of a musket with the wedding bands holding on the barrel. The first rifled muskets came out about the time of the Civil War. Specifically the model 1861 Springfield Rifled Musket, which fired a .58-cal Minié ball. They basically put a rifled barrel on their previous percussion musket. Yours is not an 1861 rifled musket. There was an earlier rifled musket, the Springfield model 1855, but it used paper cap rolls, just like you used to see in toy cap guns as the ignition. That proved unreliable at best, but the model 1861 had very reliable percussion ignition and was the main arm for the Union troops during the Civil War.

The 1853 and 1857 Enfield rifled muskets from England were also rifles on a musket architecture, but again these were percussion cap weapons. I don't know of any flintlock rifled musket, and your gun or rifle is definitely a flintlock. A picture with a light down the barrel would answer that question in a snap. But the one picture you have of the muzzle looks to me to be a smoothbore, which is in keeping with flintlock muskets. If there are "real" proofing marks on it they will be on the barrel, not on the bands that hold the barrel in place. If the light down the barrel shows that it is a smoothbore, I'd recommend posting and inquiry on the Smoothbore section of the forum.

Are you looking at the same gun the rest of us are?

 

[Big Iron]

Does it have a 53-in barrel? I think I have the same one my parents bought it in the late '60s to hang on the mantle. The barrel is still sealed with cosmolane. I really want to get out and shoot it it's a 54 caliber. One day I will. I was thinking of trying it out with some shot. Anyway if it's got the 53-in barrel it's called a long Tom. There is a thread here somewhere that you can find that has some info on it. Keywords for the search are Eagle on the lock plate and 53-in Barrel

When you get to cleaning the barrel, the best way to remove Cosmoline is boiling water. Be careful, don't get burned!

BI

 

[okawbow]

60 years ago, I saw these Belgium trade guns advertised in various magazines for $16.95 or so. I always wanted to order one, but couldn’t come up with the cash. They had several different models available.

 

[X Ring]

Are you looking at the same gun the rest of us are?

Was wondering the same thing, this is a far cry from an 1861/63 pattern ?!?

Are you looking at the same gun the rest of us are?

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Are you looking at the same gun the rest of us are?

It's post #1 in this thread. Are there other pictures? There are 10 pictures there of what looks to me to be a musket, not a rifle. Possibly the muzzle could be coned, but no rifling is seen there and the wall diameter looks way too thin. That's why I asked about a picture down the bore. During the time of flintlocks (pre-1840), there were no rifled muskets and there's no question it has musket architecture.

Of course there was a bunch of flintlock stuff made for Africa in the mid-20th ct. That was much more recent. Could be that. The buttcap and the shape of the butt on it look very simplistic to me. From my understanding, one of the hardest things in building a Flintlock rifle or gun is shaping the butt and then shaping a butt cap to cover it. This one looks like a literal 90° angle at the heel.

A few folks commented that this is Belgium made and that makes sense. My experience with Belgium-made guns though is from what we would call "modern" over/unders and side by side shotguns. Belgium Brownings for instance are sought after and very expensive shotguns from the 20th Ct. specifically because they are extremely well made. The gun pictured here is certainly not of that caliber of construction, but I've only been exposed to shotguns made by the top Belgium gun-makers and don't know the history of other Belgium gun-makers.

 

[X Ring]

It's post #1 in this thread. Are there other pictures? There are 10 pictures there of what looks to me to be a musket, not a rifle. Possibly the muzzle could be coned, but no rifling is seen there and the wall diameter looks way too thin. That's why I asked about a picture down the bore. During the time of flintlocks (pre-1840), there were no rifled muskets and there's no question it has musket architecture.

Of course there was a bunch of flintlock stuff made for Africa in the mid-20th ct. That was much more recent. Could be that. The buttcap and the shape of the butt on it look very simplistic to me. From my understanding, one of the hardest things in building a Flintlock rifle or gun is shaping the butt and then shaping a butt cap to cover it. This one looks like a literal 90° angle at the heel.

A few folks commented that this is Belgium made and that makes sense. My experience with Belgium-made guns though is from what we would call "modern" over/unders and side by side shotguns. Belgium Brownings for instance are sought after and very expensive shotguns from the 20th Ct. specifically because they are extremely well made. The gun pictured here is certainly not of that caliber of construction, but I've only been exposed to shotguns made by the top Belgium gun-makers and don't know the history of other Belgium gun-makers.

Umm … …yeah

 

[Secesh]

Time to hide the vino

 

[rmark]

Advertised as an African trade gun, made up with mostly surplus parts, imported by Stoeger I think in the 1950s - 60's from the ads that I remember.

 

[RAEDWALD]

This began life as a 19th century percussion service musket. Probably French or Belgian Army. Then sold to the Belgian trade who removed the percussion nipple arrangement and replaced it with an add on pan and steel in front of the percussion back lock and drilled a new touch hole. Finally a new flint **** in place of the percussion hammer. They were still doing this sort of thing for the African and South American trade in the 1960’s. The good news is that it should carry a Belgian proof mark showing it to have passed the official Liege proof tests. Apart from the obvious new add on flint lock parts one can see the remains of the original military inspectors marks etc. on the parts such as barrel bands. Almost certainly smooth bored. Quite a nice one and should be a decent serviceable shooter.

The photographs suggest that they mounted the metal parts from the percussion musket onto a new beech stock with a flat sheet new butt plate. The barrel may well be a new made one for the job too if it has no sign of any original percussion nipple arrangement. But then they might have done that task by un-breeching the barrel and trimming the back end off and re threading it. It does look somewhat thick on the muzzle for an original one, especially if the original had been rifled and then bored smooth by the Belgians. It has its own history and should be respected for it. I understand that most of these came into the USA in the 1970’s. A Belgian proof will let you trace the date it was completed as we see it.

 

[OLUT]

As others have indicated, this is a Stoeger import from Belgium called "The Bonaparte". They only listed it for a couple years around 1970