If I wanted a buffalo rifle.....

[Mike in FL]

When the war of northern aggression started my Great Grandfather joined the First Ohio Volunteer Cavalry and was issued a Sharps carbine (paper cartridge), sword and 1851 navy, Three years later the Sharps were withdrawn and they were issued Spencer carbines which used metallic cartridges.

Once the civil war was over the future of ML rifles was sealed by the advances of technology.

Thanks for that.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Down here in what was Spanish territory, the colonists were involved with Native allies in organized expeditions hunting Eastern forest bison by the late 17th century. Well-healed merchants and ranchers likely were using miquelets w/ Catalan stocks or high-quality French rifles, as the same family ruled both Spain and France at the time, and trade between their colonies was fairly free and profitable. (Native leaders, in particular, were known for procuring high-quality privately-owned guns, and the records state that Apalachees and others quickly became as proficient in shooting, maintaining, and repairing these weapons as any Spanish gunsmith.)
There were also arquebusiers (musketeers) armed with large-caliber matchlocks, and I would not doubt that an occasional buff might have been taken with one of these, as it fed with the Spanish cattle and horses out on the fields and dried lake beds in the area...

 

[Coinneach]

Seems like no o e really knows, including me.

Consider what I term " the overlaps" in history, particularly when it comes to firearms.
From what I've read over the years Flinter or Percussion MLs never really "died out", they kind of receeded rather than were replaced in the more remote and cash strapped regions.
In hard times especially during the 1930s great depression the poorer folk country folk only had MLs to make meat, cartridge ammo cost and was limited.
Guys like Hacker Martin er al thankfully rejuvenated the resurrection both in reconditioning surviving MLs and building them, thankfully we're the beneficiaries of all that

 

[Columbus]

Visited a park called "Knocked In The Head Buffalo" something or other on our way to Alaska. Big cliff where Native Americans slaughtered bison for hundreds of years by driving them over a cliff and knocking the wounded ones in the head with rocks/axes/whatever. Interesting place.

Bones had stacked up at the site in huge piles. Long before "white folks" arrived. Whole villages took part in the slaughter, stampedes, and processing. Same spot - done for centuries.

Been there too - interesting - can't believe for a minute that a whole lot of those carcasses spoiled on the spot. Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump World Heritage Site

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Indians killed bison by driving them over cliffs for thousands of years. No guns, and no horses before the Spaniards brought them here.

 

[French Colonial]

Indians killed bison by driving them over cliffs for thousands of years. No guns, and no horses before the Spaniards brought them here.

What if there were no cliffs for hundreds of miles, were they vegetarians.

 

[Marplot]

What muzzle loaders were used by buffalo / bison hunters?

I saw a movie called "The buffalo Hunters." They shot at very long range and tried to kill a "buf" where it would instantly kill, or it spooked the rest of the herd. They got their bullets from inside the buf, and recast them at night around their campfire.

Of course this was "movie speculation" and I was very young when I saw it.

 

[Rancocas]

You missed the point of my post entirely.

I was thinking something more historically correct, something that would have actually been used back in the day, maybe instead of "If I wanted a buffalo rifle" I should have asked "What would a reproduction of a buffalo rifle from the time period actually look like"

However, we're talking muzzleloaders here. I have no desire to shoot a buffalo, but if I did, I think that I would want a .54 or a .58. I'm not a Hawken fan, and I prefer a full stock.

 

[nit wit]

My hunt was quite a bit different, we were driven out to either dug outs or Teepee's where we stayed for a week my best friend and I stayed in the dug out and it was cozy.
Once the truck dropped us off all travel was by horse. We had to saddle up and go looking for the different herds as according to the owner they congregated in three different groups and he had a huge amount of acreage.

We then either had to belly crawl or walk on the opposite side of the horse from the buffalo and tack back and forth quartering until we could get close enough to shoot. Luckily buffalo don't count feet.
Once they made you out, even from distance, they would stay out of rifle range.
It was a splendid experience, we all dressed in period attire.

Unfortunately, they went out of business, they were south of Dodge City KS.

I hunted with them twice, good folks and a good time both tomes!
Nit Wit

 

[Juice Jaws]

It would not be a Hawken.

Let me explain my thoughts.

Prior to the Lewis and Clark expedition most of the Bison east of the Mississippi had already been killed and that was with flintlocks, at that time mostly full stocks.

When Lewis and Clark returned in 1806 they met with boats and hunter/traders going up river which again would have been obviously flintlocks and could have included some 1803 contract rifles.

So from 1806 to arguably 1836 all the rifles going in to the west would have been flintlocks, 30 years of killing buffalo with flintlocks before percussion guns even made the scene. How fast hunters gave up their tried and true flintlocks for new technology percussion guns is up for speculation but I am also one of those who believe that when they did there were more Leman's and others than genuine Hawken's. Rifles were being made by lots of less famous makers and many in larger numbers than Hawken.

Percussion guns then made the scene but in a very short amount of time were supplanted by cartridge rifles. Remington introduced the rolling block in 1867.

I believe the name Hawken is similar to the name Sharps, there is no question that there were many many more Remington rolling blocks on the frontier in the late 1800's than Sharps rifles (factory records show production numbers of rolling blocks dwarf the number of Sharps produced) and no question more bison were killed by rolling blocks but the Sharps has "the name" (makes you wonder what would have happened if Matthew Quigley carried a rolling block).

It is a little late for the time period I am interested in but I think if I ever go buffalo hunting out west again I will use a 1803, seems like the perfect buffalo gun, at least until the rolling block came along.

Can't be that hard to killed, in the beginning Indians killed them with spears

 

[BillinOregon]

This is part of a response I posted in a thread in the Craftsman section about lance heads:
John R. Cook in his incomparable memoir, "The Border and the Buffalo -- All Gone," recounts hunting buffalo with a Mexican family in the Panhandle in 1874. He says Mexicans would travel north to the Texas country in fall with heavy wagons for meat hunts. The preferred weapon was the lance, with blade about 14 inches long and attached by sinew to a staff seven to eight feet long.

 

[nhmoose]

I thought they stampeded them over cliffs.

By prodding them with the pointy spears!

 

[Rob M.]

Buffalo is really big and not the brightest bulb in the closet. I killed one several years ago with a .54 Hatfield Plains rifle. A drop-and-flop shot isn't likely with a muzzleloader. The one I shot was at 50 yds close enough that I saw where the ball hit, right behind the shoulder about middle top to bottom. The big dummy just kept browsing as if nothing had happened it walked for about 30 to 45 seconds and started wobbling from side to side and fell over. I wouldn't call it a buffalo hunt you just kinda' work your way up to the one you want and shoot it, not much hunting to it.

My experience too . The first fellow I watched shoot a Buffalo , the owner of the critters , he shot the bull until his MODERN RIFLE was empty , he loads back up.and shot the bull 3 or 4 more times as the bull just stood there . Finally the bull blew blood out his nose and his legs started wobbling ....then he slowly went down . It was pathetic . The second bull , the next year it was my Buddy's turn and Alan brought his Sharps USING MODERN CARTRIDGES . The owner kind of chuckled at Alan's rifle . Not for long .... this is no B.S. Alan shot the bull in the neck , later I found the perfect hole through the spine , and it knocked the bull off his feet ! It was amazing ! I'd have never thought that would happen ...he went right down ! Now he wasnt far away mind ya , maybe 30 yards. One shot ! Was amazing .... Circleville Ohio

 

[Mike in FL]

The awful things that people do.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

According to writers of the mid-nineteenth century, the key to quick kills was to be alongside a buff (Native people preferred taking cows during their hunts) while it was running, timing your shot to hit the lungs when the front legs were at full extension, exposing the "pocket." I think it was Remington who witnessed one brave taking 16 animals with 17 arrows. There is also at least one account of a Walker revolver being used to take 6 bison with 6 shots. Both accounts, if I remember correctly, describe this specific technique of shot placement.

 

[Whitworth]

I'd go with a percussion Hawken, good solid weapon with proven simple technology and a fixed breech that can't leak gas in your face. There is so much bull in tales of shooting and hunting in the old West. Tales of extraordinary shots exceeding the grouping capabilities of the given weapon must be chalked up to luck. Hitting a silver dollar with a gun that shoots saucer size groups involves skill coupled with luck. Same with tales of dropping buffalo at great distances with ease, a brain or spine shot is needed. Those are small targets at long distances even on a big critter. YMMV

 

[Cayman like]

Osborne Russell in his book tells of his first try at Buffalo where he shot 25 balls at one to no effect he thought and had no more balls so went back to camp and wrote it off as a bad attempt. I've always wondered where he was aiming and caliber of rifle he was using. Cuz he became a top notch Mountaineer later on.

 

[Sun City]

A modern 'buffalo hunt' is a good way to clean the wallet of city slickers!

 

[Mike in FL]

You ever think about how long the great herds would have lasted if Europeans had never came here? How long the continent would have remained wild? Very sad really.

 

[azmntman]

They're really big critters so I'd use my .50 with prb as a minimum.

My Pop kilt his buff with a .58 hawkin with a conical. Probably 80 grains, that what it shot best. He was trotting off when hit took three steps and DRT. Found the conical on the opposite shoulder. At impact a paper plate sized blood spot appeared. IT WHACKED HIM HARD