I'm starting to see what it's going to look like..

[Joe Yanta]

I started this TOTW Leman flintlock about 3 weeks ago. I committed myself to work on it a little every day even if it was just for a few minutes. Some days I could put a couple of hours into it over the course of a day.

Common grade or (M1 TOTW grade) maple stock, 36" x .54 Green Mountain barrel, L & R lock, Iron furniture with brass nose cap.

I still need to hand cut the sight dovetails and inlet the toe plate....she's getting there

Hopefully by next weekend I'll be ready for staining and metal finishing.

Now would be the time for suggestions and comments if you see something I need to do. They would be aprreciated.

Thanks

Joe

 

[Trot]

Nice! but don't rush it. Looks like you have a good bit of shaping and slimming to go on the stock yet. Looks like it will be a nice one!

 

[bioprof]

One area to pay attention to is the width of the lock panels around the lock plate. Most precarves have much wider lock panels than most originals. It's a lot of work to reduce their width, but it's something that probably needs to be done. Compare your stock with pictures of originals and I think you'll be surprised at the difference.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Yup, I agree with bioprof about the lock panels and it also looks to me that there is still too much wood on the forestock.

 

[bioprof]

Here's a picture of the lock panels on an original Leman that was posted on another thread on this forum:
http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/gonzomann_2007/Leman/?action=view&current=P4020193.jpg

The lock panels look like they range from 1/8 to 1/4" wide.

 

[Joe Yanta]

Thanks a bunch. I knew I had to do alot of shaping yet but the picture says alot. A lot of wood still remains on the forearm too. I have used scrapers for 95% of the shaping so far. the stock was like a beam when I got it. Almost 2 stocks worth LOL.

Thanks for help, keep it coming, much appreciated.

Joe

 

[J.D.]

I think I would be using something a little more aggressive than scrapers, at this point. There is still a LOT of wood to remove. Especially around the lock mortise and the forestock.

Remember that the barrel supports the wood of the forestock, not the other way around, so the wood surrounding the barrel should be almost scary thin.

I suggest removing wood from the top of the forestock, all of the way to the muzzle. IMHO, over half of the side flat of the barrel should show above the wood, on the forestock.

IMHO, the whole stock looks kinda blocky, to my eye. How thick is the web between the bottom of the barrel channel and the top of the ramrod hole?

I'm working on a precarve with over 1/4" thick web. It should be about 1/8". The barrel has been inlet deeper into the stock to reduce the web thickness, for a slim stock.

How much wood is left below the ramrod hole, in the forestock?

There is over a half inch of wood left below the ramrod hole, on the stock I'm currently working on. That excess wood will be removed as the stock is shaped.

It may be too late for you to inlet the barrel deeper into the channel, but any excess wood at the bottom of the forestock can still be removed.

Drawing the bottom of the barrel channel, and the top and bottom of the ramrod hole, in their correct locations on the side of the stock with a pencil, will give you an idea of how much extra wood is still there.
Measure carefully as you layout those lines.

Also, remember to round the wrist and forestock. I see waaaayy too many slab sided longrifles that should have nicely rounded contours.

I hope that you understand that my intent is to give constructive criticism to help you build a nicer gun, rather than just running your work down.

My first gun barely looked like a rifle, so I would have loved to have someone offer constructive advise during my first build.

God bless

 

[Zonie]

Joe:
Your doing great! Just don't get in too big of hurry with wanting to apply the finish in a week or so.

Hopefully you have a tough hide because, yes, you need to reduce the width of the flat surfaces around the lock quite a bit and this isn't easy to do rapidly.

Another thing to look at is the height of the wood along the barrel.

The top edge should never extend above the center of the side flats.
After you have sanded the extra wood off of the tops of the forend, you will have to sand the sides of the forend so that they blend into the top edges in a nice fully rounded shape.
Don't just sand of the sharp edges where the sides meet the tops. Think, "generous blending radius on both sides" leaving almost no flat at all on the tops where the sides meet the barrel channel.

Have fun. :grin:

 

[Joe Yanta]

Thanks fellas, I do appreciate your comments and suggestions. And yep, I do have a thick hide, it is a might thicker around me middles than my other parts.

The lock mortice was exact when I received the stock. Almost shockingly so. After disassembly of the lock and placing the plate into the inlet it slid into place without effort. It is not sloppy, but a gentle fit. That sorta of regulates where my barrel is going to be. I was hoping to locate the flash hole level with the top of the pan. I think if I were to lower the barrel (15/16th) much lower, and if I didn't get my drill exactly on the dot, I could wind up with my liner migrating into the angled flat of the barrel.

After measureing the barrel flats and drawing a centerline on the outside of my stock I need to take off about 3/16th to 1/4 inch of barrel channel.

I really need to take alot, perhaps 1/8th inch of the left pannel down.

The is a good 3/32nd maybe an 1/8th on the underside of the stock from the trigger forward. So I should have plenty to play with there.

Question: Should the left pannel be a mirror outline of the lock pannel? I was thinking about making a tracing of the finished lock pannel and transfering it to the left side.

Question: How much cheek piece should there be?

I want a trim stock and knew I had alot to do. Your comments and suggestions are appreciated and helps me keep in focus of what needs to be done.

Any of your experience and knowledge you care to share will be graciously received.

Thanks for your help.

Joe

 

[texcl]

I made the mistake of leaving too much wood around the lock and the forearm (in a rush for turkey season, which I didn't get a tag for), now I'm planning on re-doing the whole rifle this winter.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Regarding the lockpanel on the left side: on the guns I've built (Hawken style) the left side mirrors the right.

Regarding the cheekpiece: I'd get all the other stuff shaped and then shape the cheek piece till it feels good. There is probably a more technical answer on this but that's how I'd do it.

 

[J.D.]

The lock mortice was exact when I received the stock. Almost shockingly so. After disassembly of the lock and placing the plate into the inlet it slid into place without effort. It is not sloppy, but a gentle fit. That sorta of regulates where my barrel is going to be. I was hoping to locate the flash hole level with the top of the pan. I think if I were to lower the barrel (15/16th) much lower, and if I didn't get my drill exactly on the dot, I could wind up with my liner migrating into the angled flat of the barrel.

What we are talking about related to the lock mortise is not how the lock fits the inlet, but the width of the wood around the lock inlet.

Bioprof suggested 1/8" wide panel at the top and bottom of the lock, extending to about 1/4" at the ends. From the look of your photo, the width of the wood surrounding the lock inlet appears to be 1/4 + at the top and bottom of the lock, and close to a 1/2" + at the front and back of the lock.

Refer back to the link posted by Bioprof and look at the width of wood around the lock.

Since the lock is already inlet in your stock, you can't inlet the barrel deeper into the stock, so you will need to work around/live with what you have there.

That is the thing I don't like about precarves with the lock already inlet. Once the lock is inlet, there is literally no way to adjust the depth of the barrel inlet to get a slim stock.

One last comment about the barrel. Reduce the height of the forestock to a line corresponding to the top of the nosecap. At least half of the side flat of the barrel should be exposed, with the bottom half of the side flat, or less, covered by the wood on the forestock.

Question: Should the left pannel be a mirror outline of the lock pannel? I was thinking about making a tracing of the finished lock pannel and transfering it to the left side.

Ideally, they are mirror images, but that is not always the case. Make 'em as close as you can get 'em and call it good. If they are good enough that you can't tell any appreciable difference by looking from one to the other, then they are good enough. Remember, you can't see both sides of the gun at the same time, so some variation won't make any real difference.

Question: How much cheek piece should there be?

Run through the photos of the Leman at the link posted by Bioprof. There are a total of 32 thumbnail photos at the link. While I haven't gone through all of them, I'm sure that there is at least one photo of a cheek piece.

IMHO, most people make the cheekpiece stand out too far from the stock. That makes, for me, an uncomfortable stock.

One way to get a comfortable cheekpice is to place a straight edge on the back of the finished side plate panel, extending over and in contact with the center of the raised cheek piece moulding. The edge of the straight edge, extending over the side of the buttplate, should be about 1/4-3/8" above the edge of the buttplate.

I want a trim stock and knew I had alot to do. Your comments and suggestions are appreciated and helps me keep in focus of what needs to be done.

Any of your experience and knowledge you care to share will be graciously received.

Thanks for your help.

Joe

You are doing fine Joe. Just take your time and ask for help and support as needed.

The time to ask questions is during the build, when mistakes can be corrected and advise given to avoid other mistakes. IMHO, you are doing the right thing by asking for advise before going beyond the point that mistakes can be corrected and avoided.

Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

God bless

 

[Joe Yanta]

Moved alot of wood today. I have the top of the barrel channel down to just below the center line of the side flats of the barrel. I have trimmed the side pannels a bunch, rounded the top area behind the breech gently down to the top of the pannels, took about 1 1/2" off the rear of the cheek piece & it looks a lot better.

I must have close to 100 fine files and rasps. Ever notice the ideal file or rasp you think you need, you dont have. Why is that?

J.D and bioprof, I refer to those 32 pictures of the original Leman on an average of 5 - 6 times a day, they're a godsend. When ever I get in a tight spot I wonder if I could see it in one of those pictures. They haven't let me down yet.

I'll keep in touch for sure.

Thanks again for all your help

Joe

 

[bioprof]

Joe,

I'm glad the pictures help. I hope the owner of the rifle doesn't mind that I reposted the link to the pictures. I just used the search function on this site using the keyword Leman to show you an example. Since the pictures had already been posted once by the owner, I figured he wouldn't mind it being brought to the attention of others on this forum.

About the time I think I am just about done building a rifle, I realize that I'm only about half-way done. Unless you've built one of them, I don't think a person can appreciate the work that goes into it. Good luck on the rest of your project and post some updated pictures when you get a chance.

 

[Zonie]

Glad your having fun Joe.

Something that every new builder needs to understand about pre formed stocks from the suppliers is that the supplier is not trying to produce something that is finished.

He is producing a starting place for the gun builder and providing extra wood on most, if not all of the surfaces.
This allows the builder to trim the stock down to where he/she wants it to end up.

This is especially true of the lock panels.
The stock supplier wants to provide enough extra wood so that almost any lock on the market or any of the old original locks can be used.
Some of these locks are quite large so the stock supplier makes his panels large.

 

[J.D.]

Hey Joe,

How ya doing with that Leman?

how about posting a coupla new photos of your progress, so's we can see how you're doing.

 

[rabjr]

Looks like your havin fun doing it and thats the main thing. Can't wait to see the finished product.

This for shootin or bringin home the meat? :thumbsup:

 

[Birddog6]

Now would be the time for suggestions and comments if you see something I need to do. They would be aprreciated. Thanks Joe

Well, I have to question that nosecap. I am not way a expert on a Leman, but it does seem odd to me the top edge of the nosecap is not running parallel with the barrel, but rather canted downhill. Is this correct ? :hmm:

 

[Joe Yanta]

J.D., Thank you! I would be more than happy to show a few pix of how's its comin along.

Here are some of the finals.

length of pull is 13 3/4 inches
trigger creep not more than 1/32 inch
trigger pull is 6 lbs.
total weight as is 7 1/2 lbs.

I've trimmed alot off. I am down to about 1/32 to 1/16 on most areas. I saved a little for some fine sanding.

I removed about 1 1/2 inces of the cheek peice infront of the butt plate. I still need to trim it down a little closer to the stock.

I am really happy with the very tight fitment of the lock to the barrel. I can't even to begin to slide a .0015 feeler gauge between the two. Very close tolerance.

The lock panel came out good. There still needs attention to a couple of places.

The top of the barrel channel is just below the centerline of the vertical barrel flat. It will probably be between a 1/32 and 1/16 below the center line. I have a slight oval to the profile of the forearm. I would like to have a little more.

The forearm was trimmed down to be on the same plane as the nose cap. I plan on finishing the peice with oil and then the gloss removed with rotten stone. I want to use the existing dullness and patina of the nose cap. I dont prefer high gloss finish, but that of the low luster finish.

I am indebted to all for your assistance and comments. They have helped me stay in focus. Thanks to for your interest in my project.

Joe

 

[fitter]

Lock panels are still too thick.