I'm thinking about trying a build

[HistoryBuff]

There is an unfinished Lancaster rifle available over on Track of the Wolf's website. The price is within my budget, but I have no tools and have never carved a piece of wood before. Also, sights are not installed on the Colerain barrel and no slots cut for them. I don't know which tools to buy or how much they cost. Is this something I should attempt as a first project, or do I risk losing a lot of money here?

Thanks,
HistoryBuff

 

[Zonie]

IMO, it's a gamble. I would want to talk to someone at TOTW to get some feedback on the amount of work which has been actually done and how good the quality of it was.

It is possible that the person who was building the gun removed excess wood or made some false cuts and did some irreparable damage to the parts. If anything like that occured, I would pass on it.
I would rather carve the stock out of a stump with my pocket knife than try to save someone elses screw ups if they are very bad.

As for things like the dovetails not existing, you can always take the barrel to a local gunsmith and he will cut them in for you.

The biggest question is, is this a gun you would want to have and be willing to put hours of your labor into? If the answer is yes, then go ahead and look into it.
If there is any hesitation about spending many many hours working on it then you should not get it.

Of course, you also need to be willing to buy the books and tools you need and don't have. Things like files, chisels, drills, taps, measuring devices like dial calipers (very handy but not indespensible)... and a place to work on your project.
Some wives don't like their kitchen table being used for filing, pounding, drilling, swearing...

Good luck to you. Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[MikeChapin]

I saw that rifle on TOW. It looked like it was almost finished about equivalent to an in-the-white kit. The stock is marked for a patchbox and carving around the lock and sideplate and marked for incised carving around the cheekpiece. Just because it is penciled in does not mean you have to do it. If you feel comfortable doing the carving and putting in a patchbox do it - if not just finish the stock as is.

The rifle looks like you just need to do the finish work on the metal and wood. Some filing and sanding should give you a nice rifle. The only areas where you have to be careful would be the lock area. It mentions there that the inlet needs to be finished because the sear and tumbler are hanging inside. Something like this would take less than an hour for an experienced builder. For a first timer - maybe a couple of hours. Just go slow and use inletting black to find the binding areas.

Zonie was right about having a gunsmith do the barrel dovetails. You could do them by hand with a jig but you might want to save that for a later rifle. He was also right about talking to TOW directly and see what work is needed for the lock inlet.

 

[AZ-Robert]

I also noticed the ad for that gun mentioned that the lock would have to disassembled, cleaned, polished, finished (bluing, etc, if desired) and then put back together. I think by polishing they don't mean cleaning up the outside of the plate, but they mean making all the internal parts nice and smooth so they function cleanly. To this newby, that sounds a bit ambitious for a first time (though I really am hoping it is easier than it sounds). It doesn't say, but I wonder if that means the new owner will also have to harden the frizzen. You probably want to double check on that with Track.

On a tangent, if one orders a $120 complete lock from Track, or some other supplier, does it come ready to drop in? Or will it require polishing and tuning and hardening of the frizzen?

 

[HistoryBuff]

Thanks for the advice guys. Understand that I have a limited budget. I am married and have a young son that I want to see get a good education. That puts a damper on my black powder habit faster than a hurricane rain.

I have also seen a couple of kits that I like. The Possible Shop has an Early English gun, but I am also partial to the French fusil and Track has a couple of fusil kits that look nice. That rifle meets my criteria well enough. I like the Lancaster style and the caliber and other dimensions appear to be a good fit for me. But I also want a smoothbore and those kits are a liitle cheaper. Do any of you have experience with those kits? Might they be a little easier for me?

I was also thinking of just getting some starter tools, scrap wood and a book or two and trying a little practice carving. Then try a rifle or musket build a little further down the road. Any comments?

Thanks,
HistoryBuff

 

[Pork Chop]

You may want to check locally to see if you can find a BP kit. If you are very limited on tools, money and experience, I think that you should look at the CVA/Traditions/Lyman GPR type of kits. Those are basically production guns that are pulled before final finishing. Loads easier and can be done with simple hand tools.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, it's better to have a very plain uncarved rifle which is just plainly finished than to have a poorly carved rifle finished to perfection.

Don't worry about the carving. Save that for some future project (and if you buy and build this one, you will have future projects. I guarantee it! :.
__________________________________
"
On a tangent, if one orders a $120 complete lock from Track, or some other supplier, does it come ready to drop in? Or will it require polishing and tuning and hardening of the frizzen? "
_______________________________
The locks most of the suppliers sell are still rough investment castings on the outside (some like them like that) and the inside pieces are machined as little as possible. They are fully heat treated and totally functional but to really get them to work as well as they can, some polishing of the surfaces helps.

As for disassembling the lock to fit it into the stock, this is the best way to do the job.
These locks are not highly complex and anyone with a little mechanical sense, a screw driver and a mainspring clamp can do it. The hardest part is to not loose the fly. :shocking:

 

[Packdog]

Historybuff,
I see from your profile you are in middle TN. Not sure how far that is from N. Nashville? If you are within a few hours there is no way I would buy any gun sight unseen until I went over to Tip Curtis's Frontier Shop. He has lots of in the white guns that are well built for about the same price. (615) 654-4445 What I saw at Friendship was between $800 and $1000 depending on wood.
Better selection...know exactly what you are buying and get to see the work up close.
:m2c:

 

[HistoryBuff]

Packdog,

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll try Tip Curtis. In fact, I will be downtown around 3rd and Broadway on Saturday morning. How do I get to Tip Curtis' from there?

Thanks,
HistoryBuff

 

[Finnwolf]

Buff,
Packdog has set you on a straight course. Tip Curtis is the way to go if you are satisfied with just putting the very final touches on the wood and the metal. Tip sent me a photo of a nearly identical rifle, finished except for carving, stain and browning the barrel with a MUCH nicer #4 maple stock for under $1,000. I saw his work in person this summer at Dixon's fair and he does good work.
Tip is at 4445 Jernigan Road in Cross Plains, TN and you can phone him at (615)654-4445.
You won't be disappointed.
Finnwolf.

 

[CrackStock]

You mention wanting two guns and I think that is a good plan. I would suggest getting your feet wet by building the Fusil first as most are fairly easy and inexpensive. You can get some of the work done by the supplier if you are uncertain of your skills.

These guns are also most versatile. This solves the immediate need and permits a fairly wide range of time periods and activities.

I would forget the musket in favor of doing a militia personna using the fusil for a while. The fusil is your immediate gratification method and the rifle will allow you the ability to compete in rifle shoots. The musket is for advanced stages of true addiction. (Yes, I have one)

As you recover and replenish your war chest following the fusil, I would suggest taking your time to study the rifle project for some time. Read some books such as Recreating the American Longrifle, Gunsmith of Grenville County or Art of the Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle.

Another reason why I suggest that you build the fusil first and study after is that most people find that their rifle tastes change rapidly when they first enter this sport.

I also think that you are wise in taking some time to learn and practice the carving, engraving and other skills involved in making this rifle just as you want it.

Good luck.

CS

 

[HistoryBuff]

I made it up to Tip Curtis' today. Wow! A regular drool fest. I found several that I really like. An Allentown, a Lancaster, a French D model fusil, a British officer's musket. Now I have to figure out which one I want and get wifey's approval. Should be making a purchase soon. I have to say, it was the first time I've held a well balanced rifle or musket in my hands. And those Siler and Davis locks are mechanical works of art. Now I can't bear to touch my Traditions Hawken and I think I can sell one of my bolt action rifles to lower the cost and not miss it. There is little work to be done on these and I don't see how Tip makes money selling them. I appreciate all the advice.

Thanks,
HistoryBuff

 

[Mike Brooks]

I don't see how Tip makes money selling them.

He doesn't, he's trying to run the rest of us out of business.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

You are right about the fusil. When I go for fun such as tree rats, bunnies, quail and such, it is a hoot. Also, once one learns how to put that 20 to the pound ball where you want it, more than adequate for me on big game out to 50 yards. (I don't push it beyond that)