Information Needed

[wvamountaineer]

What would be the min. load be for a .50 cal round ball for deer hunting. My young son is too small to shoot the standard load I use which is 70gr. Is 50gr too light?
Does any one use bore butter or wonder lube 1000 and which do you think is better?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Personally, I would want at least 70 gr FFg. I use 85 gr and get full penetration on broadside lung shots.

I have used Bore Butter and it is very good but a bit messy. 20 years ago I used the predecessor of the other: just Wonder Lube back then. I still have most of the jar. Did not like it at all . . . but I am SURE it is different formulation now. It was white and smelled of tallow back then.

 

[Bill Hall]

50 grains for a .50 round ball is technically not too light, but I believe in loading for optimum killing power, especially for, I'm assuming, an inexperienced hunter like your son. I think we owe it to the animal and is the most ethical way to hunt.

So let's look at this from a different angle. If you're sighting in at 50 yards or under, the difference between 50 and 70 grains will have little affect where the ball prints on the target. Have your son sight in with the 50 grain load, but then load to 70 grains when out hunting. If he gets a shot, the ball may hit an inch higher than at the range, but nobody will ever know the difference, especially when an excited, buck feverish young man is taking the shot. (My first deer was shot to pieces all over his body, so it didn't matter how much practicing I did) :rotf: . As far as the recoil, I'm willing to bet anything he never even feels the slightest kick. My personal experience, and I think everyone here will agree, when shooting at a large animal, you NEVER remember feeling the recoil.

Think it over. It may give him just a tad more advantage. Bill

 

[J.D.]

Bore butter and wonderlube are the same product, made in the same factory, but packaged under different names.

 

[longcruise]

I killed a pretty good sized mulie doe with 60 grains in a .50 at over 60 yards. I would not hesitate to have him hunt with 50 grains if you can keep the shots around 50 yards or less. As you probably already know, he needs to hit the deer in the vitals regardless of the load.

 

[texcl]

I second with loading 70gr and practicing with 50.

 

[rawhide]

boy I don't know 50 grains to me seems light. :hmm: asmuming we're talking round balls. I would almost have him try conicals with that load of powder. they got more woop behind em. plus the gun still shoundn't kick him into next week. as every one said I'd keep the shots around 50 yards.

 

[Dave K]

Personally, I think 50gr. will work fine. It is not for long range shooting or bone crunching angles. It is a less than 50yd's load and if he is a shooter/hunter who can place his shots where they count, it will work fine. This is a good time when Dad can be the guide and back up shooter and enjoy the hunt with his son. I would rather a shooter/hunter go with a load they can handle, then get flinchy from shooting a gun or load that overwhelms. Just use the gun as an archery hunter should and will get the job done just fine. Don't ruin him on loads that are more than he is comfortable with, but use good judgement on shot placement and getting close.

 

[longcruise]

Dave K, I think that is excellent advice for our new hunter and dad as well as the rest of us to boot!

What follows is a general observation and not directed at any previous post on this particular thread;

We so often, in our load discussions, have varying opinions on how many grains of powder are appropriate for specific calibers and specfic applications, be they target or hunting. In fact, the variations in "power", which is derived from velocity, can be much larger based on variables other than the size of the powder charge. Just the variations between powder brands and granulations can produce rather large variations. I once chrono tested six powders with a .54 cal and 50 grains of powder. The difference between the fastest powder and the slowest was 352 fps (1201 fps and 1552 fps). :shocked2: We all know that barrel length can produce some broad variations as well.

Another source of variation is how tight the patched ball fits the bore. In another test I compared a TC .54 cal 28" barrel to a GPR .54 cal 32" barrel. Both were loaded with the same powder charge (100 grains goex ff) with the same hornady balls, the same patch material and the same lube. The tc 28" barrel shot right at 100 fps faster than the 32 inch GPR :shocked2: The absolute only variance observable between the two was that the TC was a tighter bore and therefore a tighter fitting patch/ball combo. It seemed that the tighter fit (more initial resistance) resulted in a faster load.

Here is a question for all; How many of you think a .50 cal loaded with 80 grains of goex fff and a .495 ball would be an adequate deer load? (I can hear the "yes" answers as I type ) Next question; How many of you think a .50 cal ball at 1425 fps at the muzzle is an adequate deer load (not sure yet what answers I'm hearing to that one ) FWIW, they are one and the same as extensively tested over my chronograph. It was "extensively" tested because I did not believe the initial results.

None of this is to say we need some altogether different way of doing things or anything like that. Just that, being a natural skeptic, I thought it should be brought up for consideration.

For myself, I have arrived at my own measure of "adequate" load just based on experience with what has worked under various conditions.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I did comparison penetration testings before I owned a chronograph.

Now, the chronograph gives me specific information that I can transfer from one powder to the next, one ball/patch combination to the next.

THEN, I do some penetration testing just to know for sure what is happening at a known distance, with a ball or bullet. 50 grains of 2Fg in a .50 cal. rifle is more than adequate for shooting deer out to 75 yards- which is a long shot for most hunters. :hmm:

 

[longcruise]

50 grains of 2Fg in a .50 cal. rifle is more than adequate for shooting deer out to 75 yards

I generally agree with that and in fact advised our OP as such. But, next time I have that .50 and the chrono in the same place I'm going to clock a 50 grain load and see what it does.

I think penetration tests are fine as long as they are consistent in terms of media. Shooting a known deer killer load at a known distance into a consistent media shold give you a baseline for that caliber. Subsequent testing of other guns of the same caliber shooting into the same media at the same distance should give a pretty good picture of what load is needed in that gun to match the "baseline" arrived at in the real world.

I prefer to take actual chrono data and apply it to known loads that have provided known acceptable terminal results at known distances. Using that method, I "know" that a .54 caliber round ball at 800 fps will provide a full double lung penetration on an average size mule deer cause I been there and done that with a known load. Notice there is no reference to the distance of the shot. It's irrelevant! As long as I know that the ball will have at least 800 fps of velocity on target I know that it is adequate. Even less may be adequate but I've no real world data to support that soooooo, I go with what I know!

As you can see, your method and mine can actually be applied in the exact same way. Just a different approach.

I realize I'm switching calibers here, but my data on the .54 is far more extensive than on the .50. Using my "known" of 800 fps as being adequate for deer with a .54 ball, I can extrapolate that even at 1000 fps at the muzzle the ball will be a deer killer at 80 yards. Looking at my 50 grain .54 cal velocity data, I'm pretty sure I could use goex ff or schuetzen fff in amounts of about 35 grains and still hit 1000 fps at the muzzle in my .54.

What do I really hunt with? eighty to 100 grains of fff!! :haha: Not every shot opportunity is the perfect broadside double lunger!

All of this rightfully flys in the face of the time honored concept of minimum foot pounds of energy to kill any given animal, and as any experienced round ball hunter knows it is factual.

 

[Little Wattsy]

What would be the min. load be for a .50 cal round ball for deer hunting. My young son is too small to shoot the standard load I use which is 70gr. Is 50gr too light?
Does any one use bore butter or wonder lube 1000 and which do you think is better?

WHY do you feel that way?
I have two boys ages 9 and 11... Both have been shooting my BP guns at 70+ grain loads for a couple years now (from a bench) my oldest kilt his 1st deer last year at age 10 with a 7MM Mag (shooting "reduced recoil" rounds) point being 70 grains of BP aint that much.. Not to mention NO ONE EVER Feels the recoil when shooting at game :wink: the adrenilin is running too high.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I figure a .50 cal. ball with 50 grains of FFg will be going at least 1200 fps at the muzzle. If the ball loses 25% of its velocity at 50 yards, its still going 900 fps.

I do agree that the shooter has to use good judgment in picking his shot on game. The animals deserve that kind of respect.

MY standard load is 75 grains of 2Fg powder in my .50 cal. rifle. MV is up in the 1650 fps range. :hatsoff: