Interested, but overwhelmed

[tddeangelo]

I've been nursing a slowly smoldering interest in building, but I haven't the faintest clue where to really start. I've been to a few shows, and they are fun, but also somewhat overwhelming. I've looked through a few pretty good looking books, but again, I really am not sure where to dive in to it all, and I would like to start somewhere....just not sure where?

My interests have been dormant a while. I started off as simply a hunter who used flintlocks because here in PA, the late season is a flintlock season. In 2010, I hunted our entire late season, which here in the southeast is all the way from 12/26 until the 4th Sat. in January. I had a great time. Didn't kill anything or even shoot, but had a great time.

That set me on a quest to get a better rifle, as the TC Renegade I finished from a kit seemed to not fit too well anymore (I got it at 13 yrs of age- in 2010 I had just turned 35 going into hunting season). After some looking around, I settled on a Lyman Great Plains rifle as a good feel/fit, and my brother had one he wasn't using. So, I took that on an "indefinite loan".

After still more digging and looking and searching, my wife shocked me by asking what I was thinking about for this rifle I wanted, and I explained being able to use my brother's rifle, and what costs were for various rifles. She asked, "Why would you compromise then? Get a custom that you'll love and use his rifle till it's done." I knew there was a reason I married her!

So I have about a year left to wait, give or take, on Allen Martin's list.

But as time comes and goes, the interest in working on rifles myself keeps coming back.

But where to start.....

 

[fusil de chase]

Decide what rifle you want.

Assess your tools. At the minimum you need good measuring tools, a couple good chisels and a glass plate and abrasvie paper for sharpening. Work holding capability, files and a method of turning drill bits.

I am totally new to this but one nice thing is that if you buy a blank and a barrel the amount of time you spend measuring/laying out/ inletting just the barrel gives lots of time to aquire tools/parts needed down the line. If you don't have a complete pile of parts your not likely to rush and if your only into it for 3-400 dollars it seems fun where as looking at a 1000 dollar pile puts some stress on ya. Full size lock diagrams are available to use for planning.

One other thing I have found is that if you purchase some vendor catalogues it really makes the compare/contrast/research way more effective. The I-net is great but printed catalogues are better.

 

[Brad Foust]

I read this with interest. I had built a few projects years back, and started again here this winter on a project from a plank. WOW, what I have forgotten.
But, whats the glass plate for?? Scraping wood, or a base for sharpening chisels.
Speaking of that, I need to lean a good method to sharpen chisels??
Any ideas?
Great web site!

 

[galamb]

There is a couple decent books out there on Gun Building.

The Gunsmith of Grenville County or the Art of Building the Pennsylvania Long Rifle are two that come immediately to mind.

As suggested - get a catalog from Track of the Wolf - it's also loaded with tons of notes, suggestions and "how to's".

Consider a kit - I'm not talking about one from Cabela's but look at the kits from Track of the Wolf, Muzzleloader Buider's Supply, Pecatonica River or Jim Chambers.

They are not "cheap" (generally in the 700'ish to 1K range) and they are not a "bolt together", there is still quite a bit of work to do, but most of the "hard stuff" is done for you with enough left that you can "customize" a fair bit.

The rifle will only be as good as the quality of the components - barrels and locks are not the place to "cheap out" on.

Finally, ask more questions - but first, decide on specifically what you want if you are going to undertake a build. Otherwise you could end up with a "franken-rifle" that sits in the closet unused.

 

[Lock Nut]

Want a good quality kit? Go to www.flintlocks.com and pick out one you like. All the difficult or hard work is already done. They require only some basic hand tools and finishing products.

 

[tddeangelo]

I guess I should say that I'm not looking to build one rifle and be done, although that could easily occur!

I'm interested in the craft as a whole, something to work at, learn, improve, etc. I'm about 20 yrs from retirement from my profession, and my wild and crazy thought is that if I start dipping my toes in the pool now, I might know how to "swim" by the time I'm retired?

My initial interest would probably be a Berks or Lehigh style rifle in a small caliber for range time and squirrel hunting.

 

[Elnathan]

If you don't have them, get a couple reference books first. Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America and Kindig's The Kentucky Rifle in the Golden Age are pretty standard reference works for 18th-early 19th century rifles.

You need to be looking at originals or at least pictures of originals, not modern repros on the 'net, or else you will just be copying other folk's errors.

 

[Elnathan]

BTW, where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[gunmaker43]

Get the Gunsmith of Grenville co. $40.00 Alexander goes into great detail on tools benches and whats really needed to make a gun. I started like you. mid 30's love to shoot ML's I'm a lefty, no LH guns on market 30 yr. ago. But as I collected catalogs--I saw LH parts, so I dove in. Haven't come up yet, still building and loving it. You CAN do it, Start slow, maybe, a semi-kit from a big supplier, look at a bunch a guns. Take your time. If in any doubt, get in here and ask, someone'll have an answer....Keep us posted...Tom (gunmaker)

 

[kaintuck]

I started lately in life too....I got some books, and some hand tools, a few blanks....and started!
I am still learning, but the biggest learning curve is to go slower.......

I have to remember...this isn't a race!

A bench with a good vise will be your starting point......

 

[tddeangelo]

I have this book:

I went to this exhibit and spent a several hours going from the reference copy they had in the room to the rifles, and back. The exhibit was awesome.

I have also looked at Shumway's book, but I'll add the other to my list, too.

I'm located in eastern Pennsylvania, another reason I am interested, as I live in (and a portion of my family has been here since the time long rifles were in common use) Berks County PA, right in the midst of where many of these rifles originated. I am also about a 20 minute drive from Dixon's.

 

[Elnathan]

Excellent. I don't own that one myself, but I hear that it is quite good. Sounds like you are in a good location, too.

 

[fusil de chase]

I need to lean a good method to sharpen chisels??

Here ya go, This to me has been the holy grail of sharp planes and chisels.





Cost me 10 bucks delivered from a discount UK based ebay seller. You can spend more and probabley get better but no complaints on this one's performance.

The trick is to make absolutely sure that when you begin each sharpening session that the ground surface is dead flat on the glass, if such you can re hone in a few strokes. If it is at all out of contact with the glass you will need to grind off that much metal to get back to the cutting edge or you will end up with an odd steep bevel on the cutting edge.

If you are like me and get tools from garbage bins and yard sales you will have a long way to go to turn a neglected, abused, nicked chisel/blade into something that brings joy to you. The trick here is to get good quality wet/dry paper in coarse enough grades to make quick work of the roughing portion and then fine enough grades to make the cutting surface literally like a mirror.

You can also use cheap coarse stones to do the rough work but do not try to do the rough work on an expensive stone or you'll end up with grooves and divits in it. If your cheap coarse stone came from the bottom of tackle box and has a scallop in it find a nice finished piece of flat concrete and rub the stone on it, it will flatten up pretty quick.

I usually tape my abrasive sheets to the glass but once they are wet they stick pretty good. If you do not make effort to get good glass/paper contact you will end up cutting your paper. A piece of 800 grit lasted me for a year till the day I neglected it, with in a few strokes it was shredded.

There are lots of ways to go from the above but it is a good start and likely more then sufficient. Curved gouges, I use bison leather curved to mate with the cutting edge, not sure if that is legitimate but it works. A piece of leather and some jewelers rouge can make a nice bit of diffrence as a last step.

If you start getting spendy on sharpening supplies do not feel bad about it, they are things that last a lifetime and pay for them selves over and over.

Oh yeah the only thing that the jig pictured above does not do easily are short spoke shave blades. You gotta bolt them to something.
Sharp tools make work fun.

 

[Woodyrock]

Two less expensive sharpening plates. first, you table was top. Use kerosene for a lubricant. If you do not have a table saw, get a one inch thick sink cut out from a counter top installer. Granite is the best, but any stone will work. They are free for the asking.

I was taught to use abrasive sheets in my apprenticeship in the early sixties...way before some body patented the method. It was not a new idea in the sixties either.
Woody

 

[fusil de chase]

Granite for sure would be nice, I use the glass cutting board cause every thrift store I have ever been in has a dozen for 25 cents a pop.

What do you mean about the patent method? Have'nt humans always stuck abrasives to fiberous material and rubbed stuff with it

Does Kerosene work better then water on sand paper? Never tried it, sharpening for me has always been something done in familial company, gives the kids an excuse for messy handwriting when they are doing homework and I am honing at the same table LOL. If it works better I'll have to try it in the shop.

 

[fleener]

you need to jump in and just get started with your first build. It might turn out like crap, but it is an education. Get 2 sets of screws and bolt. One for building, one for final fit.

Fleener

 

[Staggerwing]

After 3 years off and on, I am very close to finishing my first gun. I was like you but I have actually never fired a flintlock or percussion side lock. I have one of those fancy in line models that we don't discuss on this site.
Anyways, my wife got me a beautiful curly maple stock blank and a .50 cal barrel. The barrel channel and ram rod channel were inlet but other than that it was in the very general shape of a stock and that was it. I bought three books others have already mentioned here and spent the better part of a year reading and studying. I bought parts as I needed them and went very slow. Ask questions on here and one of the biggest things that helped me is I found a very accomplished builder that lives close to me and he has been gracious enough to help me from time to time. Spending time in his shop and listening to him has been huge. See if you can find someone like that within driving range that will mentor you a little bit.
I just put the third coat of Tru-oil on my stock last night. Several more coats, brown/blue the barrel and some parts and I'll be finished with my first one, after three years! I'm hooked. Can't wait to build a fowler next.
Sounds like your wife is supportive so get started! Enjoy.

 

[cynthialee]

I haven't made a gun yet. I get my fix by buying old, neglected or improperly put together guns and fixing them when time and money allow.
It is giving me a good idea on how things work in preparation for the day I take on a build.

 

[tbarnes66]

I went through the same thing you are going through. I'm now on my 4th build.

Before you spend any more money on anything, buy "The Gunsmith of Grenville Co." and read it cover to cover.

This book will answer the majority of your questions. It was out of print when I first started and I wasted a lot of money and time on other books that are much less detailed.

Don't get bogged down on all the details of each step, you can go back and study more in depth when you get to that task. It will give you an idea of the skills needed for each step and then you can decide what level of "kit" is best for you to start with.

 

[galamb]

Before you spend any more money on anything, buy "The Gunsmith of Grenville Co." and read it cover to cover.

Great book and well worth the 40'ish bucks it sells for.

And coming soon is a DVD companion to go along with it. I was talking to the author about a month ago and he said they were just putting the finishing touches on the disk.

Many times it's easier to watch someone do something than try and figure out what they are explaining.