internally coning touch hole

[flashpanner]

Sorry, I previously posted this one in the flintlock thread, should have postd it here.
Has anyone have experience internally coning a touch hole in the inside of the barrel? I want to try and be more PC correct and not use a liner if possible.

 

[Swampman]

18th c. guns used touch hole liners.

 

[Stophel]

There is a nifty little gizmo that you can make simply from a nail to cone the inside of a touch hole. TANSTAAFL has the diagram and has posted it several times. It works marvelously. Frankly, I don't know if it really makes any difference at all, but I've been doing them this way lately.

You're not going to find too many 18th century guns with touch hole liners except for VERY fine pieces with liners made of gold or platinum. Worn out touch holes would be "bushed", but the bushings were made of iron and I don't know if it was common to cone them or not.

 

[Swampman]

"liners made of gold or platinum."

Is it just me, or do these metals seem like really bad choices for the job. I've always wondered about that.

 

[Stophel]

You know, I've wondered about that too. Gold, silver, and platinum are relatively soft metals. One would think that they would erode quite readily. Perhaps they don't, though. I think for the most part, they were just extra "flash" to show off your wealth. :winking:

 

[Roy]

Well gold doesn't tarnish, I know silver will oxide a bit. Very malleable... :hmm:

 

[WRussell]

I think it has to do with oxidation at high temperatures. The blast coming out isn't particularly abrasive, but it's hot, and oxidation is accelerated by heat. Gold and platinum (I don't think they used silver) may be softer than steel, but they're not much softer than the iron used in a typical 18th century barrel, and they resist oxidation (corrosion) a whole lot better. So, yes, I'd say they were functional, but not worth it unless you had money to burn - so to speak.

 

[benvenuto]

platinum is hard, has a high melting point and doesn't corrode... perfect choice apart from cost
:winking:

 

[Zonie]

Platinum was (is) the perfered material.
Platinum doesn't corrode and it takes high temperatures well (melting point= 3191 degrees F).

Those folks who do long range target shooting using heavy bullets in their muzzleloaders often use platinum lined nipples. The modern stainless steels, Ampco and monel nipples erode very rapidly with the heavy loads and heavy slugs used for this kind of shooting.

I'm not sure who it is, but I read someone still makes these nipples today for those who can afford them. Last time I looked, pure Platinum was selling for over $1100/oz.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Those folks who do long range target shooting using heavy bullets in their muzzleloaders often use platinum lined nipples. The modern stainless steels, Ampco and monel nipples erode very rapidly with the heavy loads and heavy slugs used for this kind of shooting.

I've talked with those long range fellers and they claim 3 to 5 shots with a standard nipple is all you'll get and still be able to hit anything. They all use platinum lined nipples.
Gold was your second best choice in the 18th century. Platinum showed up for liners round about 1800 or so.
The gold liners weren't threaded in, they were riveted..... :hmm: I sure was surprised to learn that.... :shocked2: I don't know how the platinum liners were installed, that grade of gun I'm usually not allowed to take apart. :winking:
I made a pair of pistols with old barrels made by Heylin ca. 1750 or so. The touch holes were bushed, and they were coned on the inside. These were old military dragoon pistol barrels about 16 bore if I recall correctly.

 

[Erzulis boat]

The cost and availability of metals has been drastically altered.

Platinum resists oxidation fantastically, and retains this property at elevated temperatures. Platinum is also used for electrodes.

Back then platinum was not so relatively expensive compared to gold, as it is now. Industry, not jewelry manufacture has driven the price of platinum.

A modern 'Super liner" would be constructed of Stellite or perhaps Rene 41 (the rear skid material of the X15)(I am sure Zonie has heard of this alloy).

The Washington Monument (555 feet tall!) is capped with a piece of the ultra rare and new fangled material called..................................................aluminum! Back then it was new, rare, and expensive.

 

[Zonie]

Getting back to the original question, I saw a drawing of a coning tool for vent holes somewhere.

I think it was in MuzzleBlasts. Anyway, this was a hand cranked device with about 6 little tiny gears in a row on a plate, to transmit the cranking force to a small burr. The burr, which stuck out of the bottom side of the plate looked somewhat like the spherical ball cutters for a Dremel.

Because the whole plate (with gears) had to be inserted thru the open breech it was only about 3/8 of an inch wide.
It looked flimsy enough that my thought was the user would have to "worry" the relief into the inside of the barrel. There did not seem to be enough strength in it to actually cause it to cut iron.

Now that I've mentioned the D word, I will caution anyone using a Dremel tool with a spherical burr installed on it to be real careful.
I've seen these things decide to cut material everywhere except where I've wanted it to cut. It tends to go crazy and hop all over the place just when you think it's going to work.

The only good think I can say about the Dremel cutter hopping around is at least it's down in the bottom of your barrel where no one can see the mess it made.

 

[flashpanner]

I guess I'l give it a try. If I botch it up too bad I could always recover by installing a white lightnin' liner. Thanks for everyone's input

 

[TANSTAAFL]

See posts 219042 & 219068 here:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.../189323/post/219042/hl/Tanstaafl/#219042[/url]

 

[rifleshooter2]

Here is a link to a cool tool for coning touch holes
[url] http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/conedhole.htm[/url]

Andy

 

[madstone]

I'd use steel with proper threads amd heck w PC folks.