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Investarms Hawken Shredding Patches

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mamero

40 Cal.
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
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After a 7-8 year hiatus of shooting my .50 cal Cabela’s Hawken made by Investarms I took it out hunting. I have always been put off by the reliability issues with #11 caps in the damp weather. I ordered Mag-Spark 209 converter and since had 100% in all hunting occasions. Being satisfied with reliability I decided to take my beloved Hawken as a firearm of choice during regular season.

I was successful in bagging a doe but shot placement had me wondering is my rifle was still sighted in properly.

A trip to the range confirmed rifle was sighted in but it was apparent the accuracy was not there. At 25 yards rifle produced 2-3 inch groups all strung in the vertical, at 50 about 4-6 inch random groups and at 100 yards I had trouble hitting under 18 inch groups. I always shot round ball and remember being able to keep all shots in a paper plate at 100 yards. I immediately noticed that the patches are getting blown to smithereens and thought my 7-8 year old patches are to blame. I acquired length of pillow ticking and new batch of T/C pre-lubed patches in .18 thickness. Patches are still getting blown to pieces. I tried adjusting the load down from 80 grains of Pyrodex Rs in 5 grain increments down to 70 grains with negative results.

Inspection of the bore showed roughness in the rifle grooves. Lands looked perfectly polished. I have never let the rifle sit unclean for any length of time. I did notice since I bought this rifle if it is cleaned properly a trace amount of rust can be found a week or two after the initial cleaning. My brothers T/C Hawken never had this issue. Also my barrel is 29 inch 1 in 48 twist. There are visible concentric machining marks the whole length of the barrel. It has about 300 rounds through it since new and about 60 from the recent range testing.

As for the range cleaning routine I swab with a wet patch soaked in cleaner followed by two dry patches. I tried swabbing with only one spit patch up and down and this resulted in missing 12x12’’ target at 50yards completely 1 out of 3 shots on regular bases. Just to eliminate the user error I had my brother shoot at 100 yards off the bench and he could not produce any better than 18’’ groups.

We had four 385 grain Great plain bullets and I was able to shoot 4 inch group off hand using those at 50 yards.

I ordered some bore lapping compound to try and lap the bore. What else should I try? I am also contemplating getting the barrel re-bored in 54 cal if all else fails. If it is re bored would I be able to specify slower twist rate?

I just need to be able to produce 5-6 inch groups at 100 yards to feel comfortable using past 50 yards. I am sure this rifle is capable of this and any help would be appreciated.
 
Nooooooo, I just called Hoyt and his shop is closed untill end of the year. Ed Rayl stated that 15-16 barrel could not be bored to 54 Cal. I did the steel wool polish and will try to shoot again today. Also I am trying to locate some BP
 
strange rayl would say 54 is not possible. hoyt has bored 15/16 to 56 smoothbore for me. you could go to a 52 call. don't give up on bobby hoyt.
 
Here's a useful speriment you haven't tried yet:

Go back to the #11 caps for a while on your next range trip. If the groups return to normal, you have part of your answer right there.
 
If you do try going back to the #11 cap as BrownBear suggested. I would suggest going to a Hot Shot nipple with 6 x .75 threads, that is the threading you gun has. You can get them at Track of the Wolf. I have used them in all kind of weather and never had a problem. They will place PLENTY of spark into your powder charge. They were designed to be used with Pyrodex since it has a higher ignition temp then Black Powder. So it will work even better with real Black Powder. One thing you didn't mention, were you using the same can of Pyrodex you had open 7-8 years ago? That might be part of the problem if it was. Where Black Powder doesn't deteriorate over time, Pyrodex does if it wasn't in a air tight container. That will affect your accuracy. You said your patchs were shredding, was it just the edges or the whole patch? The edges of the patch will fray after being shot. DANNY
 
I managed to get off 6 shots after work at the local range. The rifle is easier to load now. I shot 3 shot group and it was 12 inches low but formed a 6 inch group. Best to date. :grin: Frome the firs three shots i recovered these two patches. I shot another 3 shots and they were a complete miss. :doh:

Yes pyrodex is old but was stored in original sealed container.


 
You have a rusty bore......
Clean and shoot, clean and shoot.....A little 0000steel wool or a scotch brite pad may help....

Put a couple of hundred rounds through it in the next month....it should improve....
But... the damage is permanent.

Reducing your powder charge may also tighten your groups in a rusty bore.....
 
muamero said:
As for the range cleaning routine I swab with a wet patch soaked in cleaner followed by two dry patches.

I tried swabbing with only one spit patch up and down and this resulted in missing 12x12’’ target at 50yards completely 1 out of 3 shots on regular bases.


IMO, the way you described your barrel cleaning method seems to leave a lot to be desired.

In over 55 years of shooting/hunting with frontstuffers, I've yet to find even a hint of rust in/on my guns - and they were all accurate.

After a day's shooting/hunting I keep running multiple patches downbore, wetted with Moose Milk, until the patches come out fairly clean.

Then I dry the bore before running a single very loose patch, loaded with grease (usually Bore Butter 1000+), as a rust-preventative & storage tool.

.
 
Pete I use hot water cleanup at the end of the day, the cleaning procedure is in between shots. Here are the patches I recovered from range time yesterday.


 
Perhaps you got a bad batch of crappy store bought patches.....they look very thin.....


Your patches should more look like these....
IMG-20150923-00561_zpsb0p7ktt2.jpg
 
We are going to try more 0000 wool. Barrel clamped in vise and all. Not much to lose at this point. I will try real black powder next week to see if that makes difference. I would really love a 54 cal with 1 in 66 twist. If we get this rifle to shoot decent i would never pick up a centerfire again for hunting. At this point both my brother and I can shoot my S&W m&p 45c better off bench at 100 yards than this thing. :doh:
 
That is what my brothers Hawken patches look like. In shooting close to 60 rounds yesterday I have only recovered one patch that looks like that. I have switched to cutting and lubing my own patches out of pillow thicking. It looks like its same material as T/C .18 patches with blue stripes.
 
I was given a Hawken that was left loaded and un-cleaned for at least two years......It shredded patches just like yours and had paper plate sized groups at 25 yards......Now I can shoot chipmunks with it at that distance......

It's not a tack driver but good enough for hunting.....
 
Thats all I want from this rifle. It already shoots good enough for a neck shot up close and vital zone up to 50. Anything beyond that is iffy. Should I order some .495 balls as well to try out
 
First I would buy a micrometer or calipers so you have a way of accurately measuring things....
Then I would try different patching.....take a trip to Joannes or Walmart.

Again.....those store bought patches look thin and cheap.....
Compare our pictures, notice how close my blue stripes are ....and my patches are for 45 cal.

Not all patches are the same ....not all pillow ticking is either.....

Do you tear patches when you clean??? are you using a jag.????
 
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