Irish in North America

[Davecoughlin]

I'm trying to track down the presence of the French "Irish Brigades" in North America during the F&I war.

I came across this reference:

John O"Farrell. The Irish In Quebec (in The Untold Story: The Irish in Canada, Vol. 1; Robert O'Driscoll & Lorna Reynolds, editors, Toronto: Celtic Arts of Canada, 1988), p. 282. He quotes Dr. Edmund B. O'Callaghan's claim that the Famed Irish Brigade served at Ti, Fort William Henry, Western New York and Montreal.


Does anyone have any additional information on this subject?

Or. Is this reference poppycock?

Thanks,

Jester

 

[shmrck1]

Jester,
i will be watching to see what kind of answers you get to
your ????
snake-eyes :hmm: eace: :thumbsup:

 

[dodgecity]

3000 regulars of the Irish Brigade engaged the English forces under Johnson in the Battle of Lake George in 1755. Units of the Irish Brigade were also present under Montcalm at the Battle of Quebec.

 

[Davecoughlin]

Thanks Dodgecity!!!

I've gotten mixed reports out that. I hope to hear more. Folks seem to be a mite confused about it.

Jester

 

[Stumpkiller]

Don't know if you have (or care) some of the background as to why the Irish were fighting the English. Cromwell basically made it illegal to be a Catholic in Ireland in the mid 1600's and purged the ihabitants of large sections. 25,000 Irish were sold into slavery in the American Colonies, another large number were sold to Prussia as miners.

the term Irish brigade had been used since the early 1700's when the first Irish exiles when to France in 1689 and formed a brigade in the French army which was called the Irish brigade.

The Irish brigade lasted in the French army up until the time of the French Revolution. In one famous battle in 1745 in Northern France, the Battle of Fontenoy, the Irish brigade in the French Army found itself up against the Guard's brigade of the British Army. In those days war was a fairly gentlemanly thing. They would approach each other and you fire first, no you fire first, they would often salute each other. Well the Irish swept the British from the field. So, that became a rallying cry for Irish rebels over the years. A man named Thomas Davis, who was actually a welch man living in Ireland, wrote a poem called Remember Fontenoy which became and still is a fairly famous poem. It's rather dated today, but it's still a rather vigorous piece of poetry.

http://www.roberteleecwrt.org/present/bilby.html


The Irish Legion faught the British under the French Flag in the Napoleanic Wars on through 1814.

Irish slavery colony on St. Kitts

Period accounts of Cromwell

What I don't know and can't find is whether the "original" Irish Brigade" fought in America. The Wild Geese certainly did in the Civil War.

 

[Henry]

No mentions of Irish Legion or Irish Brigade
in the French army .
There was a " R

 

[Henry]

There were Irish and Scots on both sides
http://www.chez.com/praetiritifides/Anc_Reg/DocHist/A4_86/Wag_02b.htm

Thoses were on the English side

 

[Henry]

A list of the French regi,ents of the "ancien r

 

[Henry]

More Irish regiments of the French army

http://www.drapeaux.org/Ancien_Regime/90_Dillon.htm

http://www.drapeaux.org/Ancien_Regime/91_Berwick.htm

http://www.drapeaux.org/Ancien_Regime/91_Berwick.htm

Two of them followed James II in France in 1690

None served in America in the F&I war
but they served in the american revolution
http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/regts.htm

My mistake , there are no " Royal Irlandais "
only the Scot regiment is " Royal "

The regiments who were present in North America :

Le r

 

[Stumpkiller]

Culloden was the Jacobite Scottish Clans vs. the British in 1745. Right antagonist, wrong country.

 

[Davecoughlin]

Henry,

I have been able to find most of the information you posted.

Certainly one of the most fasinating pieces is that of the Irish Cromwell "exported" to the Caribbean and Virginia in the mid 1600's.

Most also say that the French Irish Brigades did not fight in North America until the Rev War. I found a reference (see beginning of this thread) that calls the Berry and Bearn Regiments of France "Irish". The reference gives some fairly convincing arguments. Dodgecity, in his post above, seems to think the same.

The reference I found goes on to say that when the French surrendered at Montreal, the Irish failed to surrender their battle flag and themselves (being traitors to England and facing certain death)fading into the woodwork and absorbing into the world of what was New France.

Has anyone else tracked down this stuff.

Another line that could be looked into is the Irish that served with the Spanish. Did they serve in North America. Keeping in mind that Spanish troops were here for years.

Keep'm coming folks. I'm learning every day

Jester

 

[Henry]

Capitulation of Montr

 

[Davecoughlin]

Henry,

I appreciate your input.

Have you looked into this site?

http://members.aol.com/IrishWord/Ir-Can.htm

It contains the material that got me to this line of thought. I'd love your opinion!!!

Thanks.

Jester

 

also would someone have a good reliable reference link to Cornwall

 

[Henry]

I looked at it , the original reference is
the Dr O'Callagan , so I looked for who he was .

Dr Callagan took part in the 1837 rebellion in
the Bas Canada ( the french speaking part of Canada
when there were only two provinces High and Low Canada )

He was present at the Battles on the Richelieu river
and followed the leader , Louis Josepf Paoineau when
he fled to the USA .

It seems that O'Callagan was a patriot , a M.D.
a fighter but not an historian in the modern sense of the word. One wonders where he found his facts . He could not
have been present in 1759 , had very litle access to
documents in England or France , and is , to my
short knowledge , the only one giving this version

For one thing , Bougainville who was a french officer
at Carillon ( Ticonderoga ) and Qu

 

[Henry]

Dodgecity mentions `:

" ...3000 regulars of the Irish Brigade engaged the English forces under Johnson in the Battle of Lake George in 1755. ... "

http://www.historiclakes.org/wm_henry/lg_battle.html

So ,French forces 3500 men Total
700 Indians
3000 Irish
Not a single French regular , Canadian Marine or Milice ?


Now if you want a proof of the influence of the
Irish people in French Canada , look a bit further in time , after 1760 away from the battle ground , in the
folk music .

With the English domination , the cultural bridge with
France was no more , the arrival of Irish people , with their music and dances filled the cultural vacuum in the
French speaking society

This is why , to this day , in Qu

 

[Davecoughlin]

Henry

So, I'm thinking that the Irish came to New France either through France or migrated up from the Colonies (Certainly enough of them had been deposited there).

Either way there are enough to influence the culture of New France. Or does the "Irish" influence come from the later migration?

You have added a right scholarly aspect to this thread!!

Thanks,

Jester

 

[Henry]

In the " Nouvelle -France " the Irish influence
in very thin , the very small number of Irish people
who would have come from Ireland to Canada via France
and the "Canadiens "
would have thought of them as French Colonials rather
than Irish . My guess is there were more people from
African origin ( slaves ) than from Irish origin
before 1760 .

The only cultural remnant of Irish origin that
I found before 1760 is a haircut " a l'irlandoise "
( hair is cut short with a short bang on the forehead
quite similar as the Hollywood image of Romans in Ben Hur )

Quite different after the British invasion,
the land clearing in Scotland and the famine in Ireland
sent many thousand people in America .

The life conditions on the boats were horrible and
many people died on sea or in quarantine in Ellis Island and " Grande Isle " ( near Qu

 

[Davecoughlin]

Captchee

Try these sites. They are a start


http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/slaves.htm

http://irelandsown.net/irishslaves.html

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

This has been a long kept secret!

Jester

 

[Davecoughlin]

Henry,

Thanks once again.

I had some hopes of proving the Irish Brigades here during the F&I perod. But what the heck!!!

I still have questions about the reference to 3000 Irish at Lake George. More unproven wishful thinking?

I know (as do you)that many Irish went to France in the late 1600's, early 1700's. I can't imagine some didn't end up in New France. No green faced, red uniforms though.

I might have to move up to the Rev War to wear one of those!

Jester