Is That Seasoning or Fouling On My Patch?

[wiscoaster]

In Wisconsin we season our cars' and trucks' frames with road salt. Anybody try using that on their guns?

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

In Wisconsin we season our cars' and trucks' frames with road salt. Anybody try using that on their guns?

My old man did that for me when I was in the Marines. Leaned my rifles in a closet next to the water softener tank for a few years. I'm not allowed to use the language that still comes to mind after nearly 30 years on here though. Ruined a couple rare ones.

 

[morehops52]

My cleaning procedure is similar to yours. I've never had a patch come out looking new. I get it to what I call an "acceptable minimum" and then give the barrel and all metal a good protective coat. If I think it might be stored for more than months it gets a patch of RIG grease. My 1st BP rifle is nearly 50 years old and the bore is shiny bright.

 

[longcruise]

The worn off metal will turn dark but the metal comes from the steel wool very little from the barrel. If you use steel wool on a flat piece of steel you will see the steel wool start leaving powdered steel.

The idea behind the steel wool is to see if it pulls any lead. Which it probably won't but there could be some there. It's certainly not lead from the 12l14 steel.

The only time I've pulled black out on a patch is when using jb bore paste.

 

[M. De Land]

The idea behind the steel wool is to see if it pulls any lead. Which it probably won't but there could be some there. It's certainly not lead from the 12l14 steel.

The only time I've pulled black out on a patch is when using jb bore paste.

I've pretty much tried about every method of lead removal from shooting heavy .45 cal bullets in black powder cartridge guns and the very best lead remover I have yet come across was a gift from my son-in-law that set on my shelf for over a year before I tried it because it had such a goofy name............... "Gunzilla" ! I read the ingredients and found it had no petroleum in it but rather various plant extracts and water. Petroleum products cause carbon fouling from black powder combustion which is the hardest of all to detect and remove once it get going.
Being curious I tried some Gunzilla on a leaded bore by first scrubbing with a bronze brush , letting set wet for a while and then pushing a very tight cotton patch on a jag down bore. I noticed immediately the patch squealed like a stuck pig and when it came out it was coated with literally slivers of lead. I had never seen anything like it before or since. A couple more patches and the bore was free of lead.
The stuff really seems to glub onto lead and pull it off the bore walls when used with a very tight cotton patch.
I use JB compound for copper jacket removal but it won't come close to Gunzilla for lead removal.
One mans experience who has no affiliation with this cleaner other than being a happy customer.

 

[LME]

In Wisconsin we season our cars' and trucks' frames with road salt. Anybody try using that on their guns?

No! but after reading your post someone will! LOL!

 

[Salty]

I no longer use any water to clean my bore.
I clean with MAP until tight patches come out clean. Sometimes I use a nylon brush wrapped with a patch.
Then I dry the bore with alcohol. Then dry patches.
Then I oil with kroil. I leave the cleaning rod with oiled patch remaining in the bore chamber area.
No more flash rust, black or gray.
Next time I go to shoot, the patch comes out clean.
Modified Dutch Schoultz method.

 

[Cheney3]

Thank you all for all these great replies, many touch on some great and classic conversations on what's best and what everyone leans towards.

What I find interesting is the T/C manual covers, several times, the importance of "seasoning the barrel" and, of course, their products are the best to maintain that seasoning. What is also interesting is in the cleaning section, the T/C manual covers "use warm soapy water". Is this contradictory to the seasoning concept?

It does appear the metal used by T/C is a "composite steel", aka: 12L14. So it is possible I am getting some "metal" discoloring on the patch. However, there are other comments here, and in other posts/forums, where butter or oils can bring out "dirt" from the pores in the barrel. This, too, seems plausible because it is only after I start to use my final lube (butter/oil) that I get this discoloration. Last, since I did have RIG in the barrel, I was expecting there to be no remnants of RIG after shooting the gun; but maybe RIG could be the culprit of the discolor. In the end, I cannot believe this is fouling, whew

For the rust, I did have a period of time (just over five years) where I did not shoot the rifle. During this time, I have unpacked the rifle every few months just to dry patch, inspect, and re-bore butter. I think around that four year mark, a patch came out with some some slight orange. Inspection revealed some rust in a few grooves. Immediate research lead me to Ballistol to soak and clean followed by RIG for long term storage. Almost two years later, I am finally back into the game, shooting with the rifle, and there has been zero change in the rust. I am going to attempt to clean out the rust (maybe evapo rust) but maintaining, certainly seems like T/C's bore butter is not the thing to use long term.

 

[Doc Cox]

I clean with water, windex or some commercial black powder solvents and then finish with gun oil. I recently cleaned my rifle and went from black to gray. Then I used a bronze bore brush w/Hoppes black powder solvent. Patches went back to black. Wiped with clean patches back to gray. Repeated with the bronze brush etc. Every time I followed a "clean" patch with the brush, the patches went back to black. Is this carbon buildup I'm scrubbing out or is something else going on?

I am guessing the solvent is reacting with the copper/bronse bore brush. Try just using a cottonn swab and then dry with clean cotton patches, oil.

 

[Siringo]

What is it going to take to put an end to this "seasoning" nonsense. Unless your putting pepper flake, celery salt, garlic powder, and nutmeg in your patch lube,,,,, bores don't get "seasoned"!

Right. You can’t season steel. But you can season iron. We don’t have iron barrels.

 

[Siringo]

Actually I have had this apparent dirty patch happen regularly. When using factory lubed patches the microscopic film on the bore gets burned onto the bore upon firing. 1000 lube and anything with beeswax, water or water based solvents will not remove this film. After each cleaning, my patches apparently clean, I run a bore brush down a couple of times (they will not harm modern gun steel). Then I run a conventional bore cleaner patch down. Those come out filthy. What this is, is the burned on lube that has been mechanically removed by the bore brush. It goes away after a patch or two. Some call this gunk seasoning but it is not the same thing as seasoning iron, which is porous.

 

[Wirehair]

Actually I have had this apparent dirty patch happen regularly. When using factory lubed patches the microscopic film on the bore gets burned onto the bore upon firing. 1000 lube and anything with beeswax, water or water based solvents will not remove this film. After each cleaning, my patches apparently clean, I run a bore brush down a couple of times (they will not harm modern gun steel). Then I run a conventional bore cleaner patch down. Those come out filthy. What this is, is the burned on lube that has been mechanically removed by the bore brush. It goes away after a patch or two. Some call this gunk seasoning but it is not the same thing as seasoning iron, which is porous.

That makes sense to me and helps explain what I was experiencing.

 

[M. De Land]

Actually I have had this apparent dirty patch happen regularly. When using factory lubed patches the microscopic film on the bore gets burned onto the bore upon firing. 1000 lube and anything with beeswax, water or water based solvents will not remove this film. After each cleaning, my patches apparently clean, I run a bore brush down a couple of times (they will not harm modern gun steel). Then I run a conventional bore cleaner patch down. Those come out filthy. What this is, is the burned on lube that has been mechanically removed by the bore brush. It goes away after a patch or two. Some call this gunk seasoning but it is not the same thing as seasoning iron, which is porous.

Does Rig or 1000 lube have petroleum in it?

 

[longcruise]

Next time I go to shoot, the patch comes out clean.
Modified Dutch Schoultz method.

I once read a post by Dutch on ALR in the midst of one of the recurring WD40 debates that his long term storage was exactly that but he used WD40. There was a topic here on this forum not too long ago about an extensive test of a large number of rust preventatives. Over a long term the winner was WD40 Specialist.

What I find interesting is the T/C manual covers, several times, the importance of "seasoning the barrel" and, of course, their products are the best to maintain that seasoning. What is also interesting is in the cleaning section, the T/C manual covers "use warm soapy water". Is this contradictory to the seasoning concept?

My first TC owners manual was the '73 version. It recommended the boiling hot water method. Later versions do not. Manuals evolved along with TC product offerings. Warm soapy water works ok but just not too warm. The flash rust thing is real. I've seen it! The other interesting thing about the '73 version is the recommendation to use slivers of bar soap in the boiling hot water.

The seasoning concept was incorporated into the promotion of TC 1000+ lube. So named based on their claim that they shot 1000 times without wiping using it as a patch lube. I used 1000+ lube extensively for a few years on patches and maxi balls. It worked great. However, I never fell for the seasoning "belief system". Never used it as a protective formula. Stopped using it when the price got out of hand. Good lube is not hard to find or make.

 

[Mad L]

Hello!

I know the ideas of cleaning a black power flintlock have been beat to death but one question I have goes unanswered and I hope I can get some validation from you here

No matter how meticulous I clean the gun, I continue to get patches that are "dark" in nature. For example ... I can clean the barrel using water and Dawn until the water is clear. But I also will use several T/C #13 saturated patches until they come out clean. Follow this up with dry patches, which are clean. Then, run a saturated patch with T/C bore butter a few times and there it is, dark gray coloring on the patch (but not black like a first wipe after shooting)

I know BP is big time dirty, but this dirty? I can run through 30+ patches, easily, and still find a way darken those patches.

Maybe, at this point, is this the "seasoning" in the barrel I am removing or is this still fouling?

Thank you in advance
-Cheney

Try some Butch's Bore Shine for BP (they make two flavors, you want BP).

**Firstly: you did not mention what type of barrel rifled or smooth...or did I miss that, really shouldn't matter.

Use Water (not hot) and if you wish just a drop of Dawn (or not).
Run you wet patch down, flip it over and run it again: repeat until you get clean patches.

If at this point you have some stubborn crud; run a wad of tow (or use a brush if you must, I don't recommend one).
Then continue with wet patch until clean.

Now run some dry patches (usually just one or do if your not too sloppy with water).
Now run a patch soaked with Butch's Bore Shine (or any other BP Solvent cleaner).
Run it down, flip it over, run another until clean.

**Optional: at this point I usually run a patch or two Ballistol just to replace Butch's with some lube/protectant I have trusted for years.

Now run dry patches until dry.
Finally run a patch wet with Barricade oil - Done!
Check in a couple days and a patch should prove CLEAN.

Whole process should take 20-30 minutes at a leisure pace, can be done at the super table without making a mess. Should only use 7 to 10 patches (Q-tips optional depending on other design factors)

Just did my .50 cal rifle two days ago, checked today: clean, put it away.
While had the patches out I checked all my others: ALL clean - smoothbore, rifle, pistols, and revolvers -> ALL spotless and rust free, NO grey patches either.

 

[Buckskinquin]

If you have a hooked breach percussion barrel and can remove it from the gun, the quickest and easiest way I know of to get it squeaky clean is with TSP in a small bucket and syphon it in and out with the ramrod/jag/patch. Just wear gloves. It can be hard on the skin.

1 Tbsp per 1/2 gal of water.

I don’t recommend using it on a pinned barrel. The solution will jack up the finish on the wood. But, on a removable percussion barrel, it can’t be beat.

What is TSP?

 

[Siringo]

Does Rig or 1000 lube have petroleum in it?

I don’t know. For a long time I used to use 1000 lube to oil (so to speak) my bore for storage. Put some on a patch and run it up and down in the bore. In a week I’d come back and run a dry patch down the bore and it came out brownish black. Whatever the chemical makeup is seems to act as a solvent to dissolve burned on 1000 lube in the bore.

Rig is petroleum based.

 

[Terrier]

What is TSP?

Tri-Sodium Phosphate.

It’s normally available in powdered form that you mix with water. Any hardware store will have it. It’s a really strong cleaner and will strip grease, oil and dirt from just about anything with little effort. Don’t get it on your gun stock or wood furniture, but for a hooked breach gun, it makes it really easy to get the barrel totally clean without affecting the bluing/browning. Wear gloves. I’ve never noticed any fumes from it.

It makes the process of cleaning a barrel so simple and easy it’ll make you giggle!

 

[nuttbush]

Learned several years ago that the major manufacturing process of Black Powder they use Graphite in the process, it's hard to
clean. Clean the best you can, it won't be spotless and then use Ballistol or some other oil base lube to seal, put it away till
the next shoot.
p.s. Watched a video recently where the used half Dawn and half Water as a patch lube. They said they had good results.
You can look it up on Youtube if you want to watch. The fellow was shooting a .54 cal. Kibler Colonial.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Tri-Sodium Phosphate.

It’s normally available in powdered form that you mix with water. Any hardware store will have it. It’s a really strong cleaner and will strip grease, oil and dirt from just about anything with little effort. Don’t get it on your gun stock or wood furniture, but for a hooked breach gun, it makes it really easy to get the barrel totally clean without affecting the bluing/browning. Wear gloves. I’ve never noticed any fumes from it.

It makes the process of cleaning a barrel so simple and easy it’ll make you giggle!

That was my first guess, but since I’d never heard of it being used in this hobby, I had to ask. Thanks for the prompt response!