Is this a Brown Bess lock?

[Luzur]

Hiya!

I been having trouble trying to identify this lock i was gifted with, i kinda have to know what it is so i can buy a new main spring and tumbler, since those are broken (previous owner tried to fix the broken off spring by welding a metal stick on it, didnt work out..), and i have been told by people this lock looks like Brown Bess, but there are no more marking then the carved CA and a small and very worn down stamp, which i cant get a clear pic of with my camera since it can only be seen in bright light,but i drew what i could see.

The only other stamps i can find on any of the parts is "AMES" (James?)stamped on the trigger guard.

Since i live in Sweden there are very few that know anything about foreign flintlocks, and im more knowledgable about Swedish pre-1850 locks and guns then Brown Bess and others, so now i try and ask around outside.

Lock:

Stamp remains:

trigger guard:

 

[wulf]

no.

 

[Luzur]

Ok, then what is it?

 

[wulf]

Who knows. Could be anything probably home made.
I just know it isn't a Bess. I have one.
Wulf

 

[pargent]

Not Bess , but from a trade made gun (civilian or private company )of note Sweden imported quite a number of India pattern Besses post 1816 ,this lock has in the usual way been way over cleaned making it almost impossible to ID .

 

[Zonie]

It doesn't look like a Brown Bess lock but the shape of the pan does seem to have a British influence to it.

The problem as you know is over the last 300 years a lot of lock makers have come and gone.

The "CA" is rather crudely marked making me wonder if it was stamped by the original maker or at a later time? I would guess it was from a later time.

 

[robinghewitt]

It isn't English, I have only seen removable pans on French and Dutch, but I am sure there must be others.

 

[Luzur]

Well, i was given a third option by a guy, that it could be home-made, but local smiths never stamped their work like the more professional industry, they just wrote their name on the lockplate, while this plate has that very worn stamp on it, like this:

(see that text on the lock? thats the signature of Joakim Rosenhell, 1729-1807 Norrtälje Sweden)

I kinda have to know what its been since i need to replace the spring (tip had broken off and some previous owner have welded metal on it, so the cock just flopped down instead of hitting hard) and tumbler (which was cracked at the base and is now completely loose.)

 

[Luzur]

thought i could show you how the parts i need replaced looks like:

Main Spring and tumbler.

 

[DickS]

I suspect that the pan is a replacement. Looks as if the basin was drilled, and then the top cut away. Look at the frizzen screw tip on the inside. It is within a plug that filled the original frizzen screw hole.
Anyway, it is not a Bess lock. Musket sized, but something else. There were many, many different sorts of muskets made, military and civilian.

 

[Many Klatch]

There are a number of gunsmiths in the US that could custom make the missing parts and restore that lock so it could be used. I don't think you are ever going to find a drop in original spring unless you were extremely lucky.

 

[Luzur]

Thing is that im a Swede, so shipping that to the US would prob get too expensive for it me worth it, although if that becomes the only option i have i will do it.

 

[Luzur]

I may have an update, been checking around different pics, and the lock might be a Swedish Dragoon lock 1778, the dimensions on the lock (16 cm across)and on the cock are identical.

Swedish Dragoonrifle 1778

my guess is that they removed the safety on it and removed the edgy part on the cock.

Looks like it was Swedish after all, but thanks anyway for your help

 

[wulf]

I think you did a better job of identifying it
than the rest of us...Good on you. Swedes are
excellent craftsmen and I believe one could make
a new spring for you.
Wulf

 

[Luzur]

Since the safety was removed no one here could recognize it, since the safety hook was kinda obligatory on military Swedish guns since Karl XI ordered it (he didnt trust the usual method of safety, so the order went out in March 1684, if i remember correctly).

I also found someone that can make replacement parts, maybe you guys know him here, Magnus Widberg, i know he has been mentioned here in some thread, since he make snaplocks and matchlocks and
i am currently negotating a price for the parts with him.

And i will prob use this lock and make a carbine/dragoonrifle of it, since that is what its been once, i may have a shortened pipe in the lump-pile and i have plenty of birch to grab for stock, prob gonna be my "quick project" while i looking for the right kind of pipe to my current project:

a Swedish Carolean Musket 1701, just need to find a pipe 110 cm long and a bigger musket lock.
(put the pic together from parts i got from the Army Museum webpage, to use as a general "blueprint", right-click and choose "open in new page" for the full deal.)

You can find this one and more Swedish guns over here for those that are interested:
http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/search?query=musk%C3%B6t

 

[Ken Cormier]

What ever it is it is way coool