isaac haines buttplate?

[dennis john]

Hi Guys, I am building an isaac haines rifle( from a kit) and trying to fit the buttplate. I have the tang where I think it should be but the toe of the buttplate is still approx .250" above the bottom of the stock. The length of my buttplate is only slightly over 4.5". and I believe that it might be too short. I really don't want to cut the stock enough to make it fit. Any ideas? This is my first attempt at this, am I just being overcautious? Dennis

 

[Rifleball36]

A buttplate for a Issac Haines should be about 5"

 

[Birddog6]

Here are the 3 buttplates I know of that are used on a Isaac Haines rifle, depending on the one you are building.

Small curved Bivins buttplate
Large curved Bivins or Lancaster buttplate
Large flat Lancaster buttplate.

Also 3 dif. triggerguards avail for the Haines rifles.

 

[Birddog6]

Measuring from top to bottom (straight, not curving the tape) from heel to toe are as follows.

Small Bivins is 4 5/8" tall
Large Lancaster is 5" long
Straight Haines is 4 15/16 long.

So, from what you are discribing, you have the small buttstock & need the small Bivins buttplate.

Is it possible they sent you the wrong one ?

Is your buttplate way over wide & overlong ?

Now you can cut one down somewhat, however when ya get past the flats on the insides you can run into some problems getting it fitted, as it is fitted easier when ya have those flat areas, which is why they are cast that way & also give more support to the edges.

 

[dennis john]

thanks for the help birddog, it seems I am not describing this correctly. According to your measurements I have the small buttplate. this is probably the correct one (dunlap kit). I guess what has me confused is that in all the books, tutorials I have read the buttplate is generally shown as being longer than the buttstock.
My buttplate is about 3/16's to 1/4" shorter than the buttstock. That means a great amount of wood has to come off somewhere and I am a bit nervous about that. Thanks again. Dennis

 

[Harddog]

Dennis,

I don't know if you have cut the buttstock for length of pull yet or not, but as you cut stock off the butt of the gun stock it will get shorter and narrower and then maybe the butt plate will fit better.

Randy Hedden

 

[Birddog6]

If it is Dunlaps kit then it is the small buttplate & it is correct, as that is the only one he has for it as far as I know.

If the LOP is correct, get the buttplate fitted & on & screwed down. Then take a straight edge & go from the tip of the buttplate to about right behind the bow of the trigger & make a line, then rasp that off the excess. Then make a line from the buttplate toe across the bottom to up near the triggerguard & get that straight on each side the width of the buttplate toe. Now taper in the sides of the buttstock to that line so the sides of the buttstock flow in smoothly & the bottom of the stock is not too thick there. Now inlet the toeplate & you are good to go on. Remember the parts back at the cheek to the buttplate need to flow smoothly to the buttplate on both sides, sometimes a good bit of wood to come out of there. Same way under the chekpiece to the edge of the stock, want it straight from the toe to up under the triggerguard, not swelled in the middle or anything like that. Good straight flowing lines.

:thumbsup:

 

[dennis john]

Thanks again birddog, I can see now what I have to do. I would much rather risk looking a bit foolish than screw up my gun by being to proud to ask for advice. All the best. Dennis

 

[Birddog6]

Dennis, the only fool is the one that goes on Knowing he doesn't know & goes on blindly anyway.

Why screw it up over something simple ? Right ? You cannt be expected to know everything about it if you have not done it before, so you are doing the right thing........ just ask. There are hundreds of guys on here that are more than happy to help others.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Here are the 3 buttplates I know of that are used on a Isaac Haines rifle, depending on the one you are building.

Small curved Bivins buttplate
Large curved Bivins or Lancaster buttplate
Large flat Lancaster buttplate.

All three of which I've never seen on an original Haines rifle.
You need to move the buttplate forward untill the buttstock is the same heigth as the buttplate, or figure out if you want to take wood off the comb or the toe, or both.

 

[Birddog6]

Mike, As far as that goes, I don't think any of the parts sets the venders are supplying are duplicated from an original. Or at least the ones I have seen have not been "exactly" like the Haines rifles I have seen in the books.

 

[rich pierce]

If any of those buttplates are cast from yellow brass and you anneal it and know how to forge, you can cold-forge it and stretch it 1/2" easily, with annealings between workings. I use a 3 pound cross peen hammer and peen using the cross peen, anneal, flatten using the hammer face, anneal, peen, anneal, flatten. Done.

But I don't like any of those buttplates. They were made to be easy to fit, not to have good styling, in my rude opinion.

As Mike knows, the "Haines" kits are all generic Lancaster kits. I think they are loosely based on Bivin's Bicentennial guns and they clearly are not based on an original Haines. Bivins was influenced by Haines' work as the man could carve and his guns were clean and stylish. I prefer a less sophisticated, more folksy style, but the Haines kits make great handling guns.

 

[Birddog6]

No, they are not yellow brass.

Well, I realize these parts sets are what they are, and you are correct in the point of most of them being patterned from Bivins work or at least much likeness to his work. As I said, they are what they are.

I was just trying to get the guys buttplate on, not even remotely saying the parts sets were in any way PC. It is quite obvious when ya look at the photos of a Haines & the parts sets they are of that style, but Not the same exact rifle. If they were to be exactly like it, most guys building today would get flustrated & quit. :hmm:

 

[rich pierce]

True enough. Wish they were yellow brass.

 

[Stophel]

Best thing to do is ditch the Bivins buttplate (and sideplate...) and replace them with a much more appropriately styled sand cast brass item. :winking:

 

[Okwaho]

I would contact Reaves F.Goehring Jr.,Hempfield Manor Farm, 4436 Marietta Ave. Columbia, Pa. 17512-9606.He specializes in early castings but I don't think he has a catalogue or a web site.
Tom Patton