Do a search on "perc" for these or the "Show your Hawken", weve done a bunch on Hawken factory built Hawken's, Ive got a 50 and the feeling was from people that have had the 3 factory Hawken's till then itwas the best, all are about the same the Navy Ithaca and Browning Mountain.Oh the other is the Sante Fe! John H wrote a good thing up on the Ithaca here I belive it was, someone maybe can remember back that far to pull it. Hope that helps. Fred :hatsoff: