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J. Henry Trade Rifles
- Thread starter MikeC
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Guest
I have several references on the Henry rifles, but none handy at the moment. They were a well made and common gun of the early 19th cent. They likely outnumbered the Hawkens in the hands of the mountain men and plainsmen.
J.Henry was a Pennsylvania gun makeing company.They supplied gun's to the fur trade company's from about 1820 on.They were very common rifle of the rockey mountain fur trade,mountain men liked them alot because they were well made, durable rifle's,they were generaly 50 to 54 cal.They pre dated the Hawken by 15 year's or more.hope this helps...rusty
MikeC,
If you can get "The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle" by Henry J. Kauffman it contains about 9 pages of information on the Henry family. The book includes pictures of some of their guns, the factory, and other documentation.
Don R
If you can get "The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle" by Henry J. Kauffman it contains about 9 pages of information on the Henry family. The book includes pictures of some of their guns, the factory, and other documentation.
Don R
Guest
Do a search on this forum for Henry rifles (BTW why is this in the smoothbore section?) - myself and others have posted quite a bit of info and pictures regarding them. There were four basic models made by Henry:
1) The Lancaster also called the American Pattern (ignore Hanson's contention that the AMerican pattern was a cheaper version, the documentation doesn't bear it out).
2) That pattern with steel mounts (the steel mounted Henry often shown as such is NOT a Henry - it is a rebuild using a Henry barrel and maybe some other parts, but NOT a Henry)
3) The Old English Pattern
4) The new of scroll model English Pattern.
Along with Kaufman and other books on the PA/Ky rifle, the books by Charles Hanson on teh Plains Rifle and The Hawken Rifle both have some info albeit incomplete. One of the best books covering all western firearms is the book "Firearms of the AMerican West 1803-1865" Like most refernce books it is not perfect, but the included primary source documentation (purchaae orders, etc.) is invaluable.
Henry started supplying guns to the American Fur Co in about 1826. From 1830 until the mid 1840's Henry was the main supplier of firearms to the AMFCo and also to many other dealers in the western fur trade. He supplied rifles and smooth bores, although the latter were not generally as well received as were the Euro smooth bores. Henry also supplied barrels to other makers.
Don Stith is the process of producing a copy of the Lancaster pattern Henry as a kit - when Don gets this one on the market it will be "right" for those seeking a copy of the originals.
1) The Lancaster also called the American Pattern (ignore Hanson's contention that the AMerican pattern was a cheaper version, the documentation doesn't bear it out).
2) That pattern with steel mounts (the steel mounted Henry often shown as such is NOT a Henry - it is a rebuild using a Henry barrel and maybe some other parts, but NOT a Henry)
3) The Old English Pattern
4) The new of scroll model English Pattern.
Along with Kaufman and other books on the PA/Ky rifle, the books by Charles Hanson on teh Plains Rifle and The Hawken Rifle both have some info albeit incomplete. One of the best books covering all western firearms is the book "Firearms of the AMerican West 1803-1865" Like most refernce books it is not perfect, but the included primary source documentation (purchaae orders, etc.) is invaluable.
Henry started supplying guns to the American Fur Co in about 1826. From 1830 until the mid 1840's Henry was the main supplier of firearms to the AMFCo and also to many other dealers in the western fur trade. He supplied rifles and smooth bores, although the latter were not generally as well received as were the Euro smooth bores. Henry also supplied barrels to other makers.
Don Stith is the process of producing a copy of the Lancaster pattern Henry as a kit - when Don gets this one on the market it will be "right" for those seeking a copy of the originals.
Take a look at this. It peaked my interest, love the look. Let me know what you think. I assume this is a copy of one of the English pattern rifles.
Henry Rifle Smoothbore
I did a search and found some intersting info but no pics.
Henry Rifle Smoothbore
I did a search and found some intersting info but no pics.
Guest
It tried to be but didn't cut the mustard. It is not even close. Sorry, but this is my honest opinion. Nice work but missed the mark. 
Guest
That's roughly patterned after a Henry English pattern rifle, probably somewhat less roughly than a TC Hawken was patterned after a Sam Hawken rifle. To my knowledge there is no record that the Henry's ever made one of these left handed or as a smoothbore. I have handled an original one that was bored out smooth after being pretty well shot out. They also had an english-type patchbox and 42-44" barrels with a slight swamp.
BTW, the Henry's did contract for a few smoothbore Northwest guns with AFC during the 1820's but were outcompeted in this market by the English makers. However, according to the remaining records, the Henry's were the top rifle contrators for the American Fur Company until sometime in the 1840s. Like Gray Wolf mentions their number one product was their Lancaster pattern follwed by the English pattern. In 1834, they began producing a rifle referred to as the scroll guard or new English that would eventually outstrip and replace the old English pattern. All of these were brass mounted, but there are a few records of iron-mounted guns being ordered by the upper Missouri outfit around 1830. What these guns looked like is only speculation. Later on the Henry operations started making half-stocked plains rifles and eventually patented a design for a single barrel break-open shotgun with an external side-mounted hammer. They operated over about 4 generations if I remember correctly from before the Rev war to the 1890's.
You can find some info on Henry trade rifles in Hanson's Hawken book available from the Museum of the Fur Trade and the KRA and Kaufman books There are other references I can provide, but most are out of print. PM me if you want citations.
Sean
BTW, the Henry's did contract for a few smoothbore Northwest guns with AFC during the 1820's but were outcompeted in this market by the English makers. However, according to the remaining records, the Henry's were the top rifle contrators for the American Fur Company until sometime in the 1840s. Like Gray Wolf mentions their number one product was their Lancaster pattern follwed by the English pattern. In 1834, they began producing a rifle referred to as the scroll guard or new English that would eventually outstrip and replace the old English pattern. All of these were brass mounted, but there are a few records of iron-mounted guns being ordered by the upper Missouri outfit around 1830. What these guns looked like is only speculation. Later on the Henry operations started making half-stocked plains rifles and eventually patented a design for a single barrel break-open shotgun with an external side-mounted hammer. They operated over about 4 generations if I remember correctly from before the Rev war to the 1890's.
You can find some info on Henry trade rifles in Hanson's Hawken book available from the Museum of the Fur Trade and the KRA and Kaufman books There are other references I can provide, but most are out of print. PM me if you want citations.
Sean
It is surprising that no one produces a replica of these rifles and surprising they aren't better known. They were certainly the backbone of the fur trade. J.J.Henry produced more rifles and sent more to the mountains in one year than the total production of Hawkens in all the years they were in business. And Henry was certainly not the only maker to trade rifles. Well known makers such as Henry Gibbs, Jacob Fordney, Jacob and Christopher Gump, John Brandt, Deringer and Leman all produced rifles to a standard pattern for the fur trade. Then there were those imported from England as opposed to the "English rifles" made in the States. They were very practical rifles for then or now, barrels of 42-44", .49-.55 caliber and weighing 10 pounds or less. At an 1830's fur trade rendezvous the trade rifles would out-number Hawkens by one hundred to one.
Guest
Hey Sean, have you found any ratio figures on how many Englich Pattern rifles as apposed to the American Pattern Henry's that he sent out? Also, how many Scroll Guard (New English) were sent out in comparison to the Am. Pattern?
Cooner
Cooner
Guest
At an 1830's fur trade rendezvous the trade rifles would out-number Hawkens by one hundred to one.
Howdy Coyote,
If you don't mind me asking, what is your source on this ratio?
Cooner
Howdy Coyote,
If you don't mind me asking, what is your source on this ratio?
Cooner
Guest
Cooner,
There's some numbers in Hanson's Hawken book, but they are incomplete as they only cover what went to the Upper Missouri Outfit of the AFC. Shumway did an article a long time ago in the old Buckskin Report that had some of the numbers of guns that went to the Great Lakes area as well. A lot of the English pattern guns appear to have gone there and it is the market they were likely designed for. The English import guns they were based on are something of a big question mark. There's a bunch of these guns that survived, but their source is speculation. From what I know of HBC records there aren't that many records of them being traded by them and many show British gov. markings instead of HBC or NWC markings. Its thought that most of these were given by the brits to NDN allies during the Rev. War to War of 1812 era and these guns are pretty variable ranging from Lancaster clones with wood and brass p-boxes to very military looking rifles. There are very few records remaining for non-AFC rifle purchases. I'd certainly like to find out more about some of the other makers for AFC. I have a few things on Dickert, the Gills, and others. There were even makers from N. England and New York producing 'Lancaster' pattern rifles for AFC. I think Brandt was from NY and Smith was from New England. I have no records that Deringer produced rifles for AFC, but he appears to have made a ton for the NDN dept. and just about everyone else.
Sean
There's some numbers in Hanson's Hawken book, but they are incomplete as they only cover what went to the Upper Missouri Outfit of the AFC. Shumway did an article a long time ago in the old Buckskin Report that had some of the numbers of guns that went to the Great Lakes area as well. A lot of the English pattern guns appear to have gone there and it is the market they were likely designed for. The English import guns they were based on are something of a big question mark. There's a bunch of these guns that survived, but their source is speculation. From what I know of HBC records there aren't that many records of them being traded by them and many show British gov. markings instead of HBC or NWC markings. Its thought that most of these were given by the brits to NDN allies during the Rev. War to War of 1812 era and these guns are pretty variable ranging from Lancaster clones with wood and brass p-boxes to very military looking rifles. There are very few records remaining for non-AFC rifle purchases. I'd certainly like to find out more about some of the other makers for AFC. I have a few things on Dickert, the Gills, and others. There were even makers from N. England and New York producing 'Lancaster' pattern rifles for AFC. I think Brandt was from NY and Smith was from New England. I have no records that Deringer produced rifles for AFC, but he appears to have made a ton for the NDN dept. and just about everyone else.
Sean
Guest
FYI, in the very near future, Don stith will be offering a J Henry kit, copied off of one of his originals I believe. He can be reached at[url] www.donstith.com[/url]
Bill
Bill
Last edited by a moderator:
Guest
Which pattern Henry is Don working up?
Guest
Not sure if it's the American, English or Lancaster, just know it'll be a beaut. I think He's gonna intor it at either the CLA or at Dixon's
Bill
Bill
Guest
I'll try to look up the numbers from the Shumway article later. Might take me a bit... Sorta up to my ears right now.
Don Stith's been working on a Lancaster pattern kit. I've seen his patterns and they are pretty darned good. His initial pattern had a straight 15/16" or 1" barrel, but I think he may be able to do a swamp as well. Early versions of this gun had slight swamp patterns and 44" barrels. Later ones could have had either and were in general more variable because their were more people contracting for them than just AFC. Don't know where he's at yet on producing it for sale. He said he was going to make up one and do an article on it in one of the ML magazines. If folks are seriously interested in what is likely the most common rifle of the western fur trade, they should definitely contact him about it. I don't think Don makes a lot of $$ off his kits, so every little bit of interest will make sure the project comes to fruition.
Sean
Don Stith's been working on a Lancaster pattern kit. I've seen his patterns and they are pretty darned good. His initial pattern had a straight 15/16" or 1" barrel, but I think he may be able to do a swamp as well. Early versions of this gun had slight swamp patterns and 44" barrels. Later ones could have had either and were in general more variable because their were more people contracting for them than just AFC. Don't know where he's at yet on producing it for sale. He said he was going to make up one and do an article on it in one of the ML magazines. If folks are seriously interested in what is likely the most common rifle of the western fur trade, they should definitely contact him about it. I don't think Don makes a lot of $$ off his kits, so every little bit of interest will make sure the project comes to fruition.
Sean
Guest
There has been rumblings of another outfit, well known for its trade gun smoothbores, that is working on reproducing a kit of the Henry English pattern that is based on castings and measurements taken from the Bridger gun that used to be in the Kit Carson Home Museum. Unlike castings from TRS, this one will have a finished lock that is still based on an original and a pre-carved and inlet stock. The final product should be along the lines of Chambers kits in terms of quality and fit. Last I spoke with him on the project, he was even talking about copying the barrel profile from the original. Keep your fingers crossed and toss some tobacco to the four winds. It'd be a really nice gun if it all works out.
Sean
Sean
Guest
:applause: :applause: This is exciting news!! I can't wait! Christmas, hurry up! :applause: :applause:
:shocked2: Sorry! I fergot myself. But, dernit, it makes me feel like a lil' kid at Christmas! :redface:
:shocked2: Sorry! I fergot myself. But, dernit, it makes me feel like a lil' kid at Christmas! :redface:
