Jaeger

[Rifleman1776]

Present day builders build them too large, the old ones were quite petite in comparison

I have handled maybe, six, originals and have seen others. Methinks a lot of our contemporary ml guns have longer pulls than those of days past. We are bigger people today. Other than that, the ones I have seen are not a lot different than current builds.

 

[Stophel]

German guns can be quite robust, but it's not just a matter of "fattening them up", they need to be big where they need to be big, thin where they need to be thin. 13 1/4" seems to be an average pull length. Sometimes shorter, almost never much longer. They are held differently than a shotgun, so the pull length can be shorter.

Other than the 15+" pull lengths that people think they need, the biggest problem I see with modern "Jaegers" is too much drop, not enough cast off. That cheekpiece is there for a reason. It is a cheekpiece, not a chinpiece, like on later American guns with 4 or more inches of drop at the heel.

Handling some old rifles will make all the difference in the world in how one might build their recreation. :wink:

 

[Robby]

I have made only four, one for family and one for a friend. The two that I kept, coincidentally are named Horrible and Mish Mash.
Robby

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have handled dozens or originals and I suspect Stophel has examined many dozens more that I.
The guns illistrated here are nice guns but painfully contemporary, but that's not all bad either. Generally the buttplates are too tall and not wide enough, the pull is to long and the barrel breech too skinny with too slow of taper. The school or region is mish mash and the carving, although well executed doesn't go well with the rifle. As contemporary "AMerican Jeagers" (I hate that term) they are good, well constructed guns.
I was going to market a kit along the lines of the military "Pistor" rifle, but after I drew it out to contemporary dimensions and pull it looked stupid so I abandoned the project.
The original "jeager rifles" are fascinating to look at and handle in person, but we're missing them completely when we reproduce them.
The better of the two guns I posted is the first one, the pull on the second is way too long. I'll build one of these for myself one day as a hunting gun, but it will be short pulled and pregnant in the appropriate places. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Or I could shorten all my ramblings by stating, "A short barrel does not a jeager make..." :haha:

 

[gizamo]

Terry Briggs build...

 

[bnail]

how prevelant were Jaegers in the colonies?

 

[Stophel]

This is the only set of photos I have of a gun I made to represent a German rifle. It's a Pistor-ish military-ish type of rifle (actually, it's a common North German styled gun, basically)

I have another I've started on (restocking one of my earlier ugly guns... I think it was my second rifle). More of a SW German gun. I may even put the star on the cheek... looks like rather tedious work... :barf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Terry Briggs build...

More of an american short rifle. Curly maple and american style carving.

 

[Mike Brooks]

This is the only set of photos I have of a gun I made to represent a German rifle. It's a Pistor-ish military-ish type of rifle (actually, it's a common North German styled gun, basically)

I have another I've started on (restocking one of my earlier ugly guns... I think it was my second rifle). More of a SW German gun. I may even put the star on the cheek... looks like rather tedious work... :barf:

Outstanding! :applause: What is the length of pull?

 

[Stophel]

Probably about 13 1/2". I refuse to make them much longer than that! :haha: The buttplate is like 4 3/4", so that gives the illusion of a longer stock.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Probably about 13 1/2". I refuse to make them much longer than that! :haha: The buttplate is like 4 3/4", so that gives the illusion of a longer stock.

My "kit" was to be off that stock pattern but it's incredibly difficult to sell a kit wit a 13.5" pull so I abandoned the project. You did a really great job with this one. :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

Thanks! That was actually a restock I did of someone else's mess (don't ask me why I took the job.... it wasn't too hard, though). Originally, it was in a soft maple stock with big brown bess dog knots and about a 15" pull...

I started this one nearly two years ago, and I've been very much out of the flintlock loop since then, so I haven't touched it in a long time. This one is also a restock, but it's mine :wink: I may or may not use the triggerguard in the drawing...

I guess I need to get back into it!

 

[Mike Brooks]

You might want to take a rasp to those corners.... :haha: :thumbsup: .

 

[Spikebuck]

Thanks everyone for all the pictures! I'm doing my first ever build now and it's a Jaeger. Not having any experience, I've been perusing all the websites I can find with pictures of original Jaegers and I see fat, thin, straight, perch-belly, short-short to medium long, curved and straight cheek pieces, carving, no carving, steel, brass, adorned, plain, beautiful to butt ugly....you get the point. To my untrained eye I was wondering if the "style" Jaeger truly just meant "hunter" or hunting gun rather than a particular look! :idunno:

I do know that I have enough of it done to shoulder it and "fire" with a wooden flint and it comes up really nice and feels great and I haven't even shaped the forestock yet. I think it will be a great selection for a hunting rifle. I guess I would disagree with the comment that they are heavy, but maybe that's because I'm mostly used to a Hawken which weighs in at almost 10 pounds. This is my first swamped barrel and so far, I like it...although the proof will be in the shooting...hopefully sometime this summer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I was wondering if the "style" Jaeger truly just meant "hunter" or hunting gun rather than a particular look!

That just may be one of those subjects that will be debated until, and probably after, the end of time. George Schumway (famous ml researcher and publisher) says many belive it is not a Jaeger if made outside of a German speaking country. Our own Mike Brooks seems to side with that school of thought. Schumway also points out that any gun used for hunting can be called a 'jaeger' whether it is the style we are currently cussin' and discussin'. Pick yer pizzen and don't look back. :wink:

 

[Stophel]

I refuse to call a rifle a "Jaeger". The Jaeger is the man with the gun, not the gun he carries. :grin:

And it's not like German guns are of one specific style. Everybody wants to cubbyhole everything into a precisely defined pattern. These guns don't have model numbers. :wink:

 

[gizamo]

Stophel. :hatsoff:

 

[Robby]

Words mean things. The rub is how its defined or how that definition is interpreted. The misinterpretation of words and the way they are intended is exacerbated on the internet because we are visual animals and without a face to face, where facial expression, body language along with emphasis and intonement placed on words, its easy for people to not see they are sometimes in agreement, and think they are not. Jaeger means simply, hunter. To a fan of antique automobiles, its a car, to a vinter, its a grape. To people steeped in old guns, it is a 'type' of gun. What I call mine is, Jaeger type, or American Jaeger type with a heavy dose of what I call Livingston County influences :wink: . They were made using Shumway's book, and, before I had the Internet. This is why I come here and another forum, for enlightenment, am thankful for that when I get it, and humbly make no apologies for what I have done, or how I might define them.
Robby

 

[bnail]

I refuse to call a rifle a "Jaeger". The Jaeger is the man with the gun, not the gun he carries. :grin:

And it's not like German guns are of one specific style. Everybody wants to cubbyhole everything into a precisely defined pattern. These guns don't have model numbers. :wink:

Stophel: they may not have model numbers but that style has aquired a name. And in our lexicon it is "Jaeger."