James Bowie

[Anvilboy]

Phil Collins donated the Alamo Bowie knife back to the Alamo a couple of years ago. Has anyone seen it? Perhaps a picture or link?

 

[flashpoint]

Having lived in Texas for more decades than any other state I thought I knew about James Bowie. But having just purchased a Bowie knife from @Runewolf1973 I thought I'd add a Bowie book to my collection. Quick read, and VERY interesting. I really didn't know anything about James Bowie. And I learned a bit more than I knew about the Bowie knife. Highly recommend this book.

P.S. Really got me to thinking about the Era I really love which is the Fur Trade and how they armed themselves. The same time the James Bowie story unfolds, including Jean Lafitte the pirate, is the same time as the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. My head is swimming.

View attachment 110256

Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting and a great looking knife that will surely do the job.

 

[tallpine]

Interesting article about the Bowie that Collins donated to the Alamo “Texas Monthly” Article Addresses Fake Bowie Knives Slated for Display at the Alamo

 

[LRB]

The Rezin Bowie has a pretty heathy cross guard as pictured, now however as some have said the original was simply a large butcher knife with no cross guard that could have been a problem.

The "Rezin" Bowie pictured was one of a style made by Daniel Searles in Baton Rouge Louisianna and was on display in the Alamo for many years. May still be there. Guard and other fittings are of silver. It is a beautiful knife, and has a very nice silver mounted scabbard engraved, R. P. Bowie to H. W. Fowler, U. S. D. Ebony grip, checkered with tiny silver pins in the diamonds, 9 1/2" blade.

 

[FishDFly]

When was the article? I take Texas Monthly and do not remember reading it.

Never mind, I am color blind.

Thanks, off to get my Texas Monthly and build a fire in the fire place.

 

[LRB]

One of the most famous and controversial Bowie knives is the "MUSSO" bowie knife, purchased from Joe Musso by Phil Collins a few years ago. Below is a picture of it on the now defunct ALAMO JOURNAL, with my version laying on the magazine.

Blade is 13 3/4" long, but it is not a heavy, nor awkward knife to wield. 2lb 12oz. I made this knife to the exact blueprint that Joe Musso drew. 

 

[LRB]

Here is one of the most famous and controversial Bowie knives in existence. The MUSSO Bowie knife, pictured on the cover of the now defunct ALAMO JOURNAL, with my version laying on top of it. Blade is 13 3/4", but the knife is neither heavy nor awkward to wield well. It weighs 2 lb 12oz.
View attachment 110477

 

[andy52]

The "Rezin" Bowie pictured was one of a style made by Daniel Searles in Baton Rouge Louisianna and was on display in the Alamo for many years. May still be there. Guard and other fittings are of silver. It is a beautiful knife, and has a very nice silver mounted scabbard engraved, R. P. Bowie to H. W. Fowler, U. S. D. Ebony grip, checkered with tiny silver pins in the diamonds, 9 1/2" blade.

Correct and if I were to ever buy a Bowie knife that would be the style. They are very nice looking knives and I've seen photos of the one you're talking about.

 

[LRB]

Correct and if I were to ever buy a Bowie knife that would be the style. They are very nice looking knives and I've seen photos of the one you're talking about.

Here is one I made to be reviewed for "The Alamo" movie. They decided on the Musso version.

 

[LRB]

Here is one I made to be reviewed for "The Alamo" movie. They decided on the Musso version.

View attachment 110486

View attachment 110488

Another I made earlier in 1980. I too like that style.

 

[andy52]

Here is one I made to be reviewed for "The Alamo" movie. They decided on the Musso version.

View attachment 110486

View attachment 110488

Very nice looking knife, I much prefer that blade style to the big clip points you see on many Bowie's. One thing I never understood is the reason for the brass back strap on the Musso version. Honestly, with some of these knives of that size, I often wondered why they just didn't carry a short sword.

 

[cornstalk]

It’s my understanding the brass strap was thought to catch an opponents blade. Brass being softer then iron/steel I guess.

 

[andy52]

Another I made earlier in 1980. I too like that style.

View attachment 110490

Very nice, even though I'm not as skilled at knife making as you here's a photo of the very first knife I made for myself in the early 90s. It's not exactly what I would refer to as a Bowie and is really useless in day-to-day activities but looked good on my belt at rendezvous

.

 

[LRB]

Looks pretty well done to me and would be considered a Bowie knife. Bowie knives are much like ****ography. Difficult to accurately define, but you know what it is when you see it. I say good job on that one. Oh yeah, Cornstalk is right. The brass is a blade catcher. There are a decent number of examples on 18th and 19th century knives, and illustrations in books and newspapers of the times. There are 17th/18th c. Scottish knives having brass spines, and oddly enough, Bowie was of Scottish descent. Sam Houston's nephew I believe, wrote a book on him in 1840's or 50's and it was illustrated on some pages. At least two of those illustrations show Houston with a Bowie knife that is a near perfect match for the Musso Bowie, and just as big. Not proof, but I would say good to even hard evidence in favor of the Musso knife being authentic. Supposedly given to Houston by Bowie or made by the same maker. I will try and find those pics. I had them at one time.

 

[Dude]

Honestly, with some of these knives of that size, I often wondered why they just didn't carry a short sword.

Fourteen inches seems about the length of a short sword to me. I've read that a short sword can be as short as 12". What are the advantages of having a big knife (Bowie) over a short sword?

Looks pretty well done to me and would be considered a Bowie knife. Bowie knives are much like ****ography. Difficult to accurately define, but you know what it is when you see it. I say good job on that one.

Yeah, looks good to me too. I like your comparison, LRB. LOL

Great discussion! Thank you. And those are sure some pretty knives, LRB.

 

[Notchy Bob]

That looks like a great book, @cornstalk ! Thanks for posting!

The knife that Rezin gave Jim was a large, plain chef's knife. Jim Bowie was not a big knife guy, Rezin was. He was the one that had many knives comissioned by several knifemakers and was a big promoter the Bowie knife. When the Bowie craze took off around the time of the California gold rush the English cutlers took advantage of the opportunity and flooded the American market with imported Bowies. Some quite ornate, clip point blades and guards. The English knife makers were very influential in what we consider to be a Bowie today. One thing to keep in mind when studying the Bowie knife, none of the knowledgeable, respected Bowie experts can agree on anything, most everything we know is speculation and educated guess work. Probable the reason that these big fighting knives have intrigued knife lovers for over two hundred years.

Good post, @tallpine. Bowie knives are something that everyone recognizes, but nobody can quite agree on a definition.* I have a couple, but they are "closet queens," as I prefer a simpler, lighter knife for normal usage and carry. I do admire a nice Bowie, though.

You Texas boys with an interest in the fur trade might like this: Texas in the Southwestern Fur Trade, 1718-1840

This is actually a Master's thesis submitted by one J. Ryan Badger in 2018 to Utah State University. As a scholarly paper, it may be a little dry, but I found it informative and not hard to read. Not all of the "beaver men" were in the Rockies.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

*@LRB posted while I was writing. He said it better...

 

[andy52]

Fourteen inches seems about the length of a short sword to me. I've read that a short sword can be as short as 12". What are the advantages of having a big knife (Bowie) over a short sword?


Yeah, looks good to me too. I like your comparison, LRB. LOL

Great discussion! Thank you. And those are sure some pretty knives, LRB.

For me there is no advantage to a large knife alone vs a small sword. When I go full dress at Fort de Chartres, I carry a Colichemarde smallsword and the knife shown above in a Rapier and dagger style.

 

[user 48702]

I am surprised about Alabama's law. Essentially treating a Bowie knife (or Butcher knife for that matter) like a pistol. Unless I'm mistaken reading the Alabama law you can open carry a Bowie knife (or anything that resembles it) but to conceal carry you'd need a Conceal Carry Permit (pistol). I can't find anything about transporting a Bowie or Butcher knife in a vehicle but since Alabama starts by treating it like a pistol (which can't be transported in a vehicle without a Conceal Carry Permit- although there are some exceptions made) I'd not be the one to tempt fate. Alabama does honor other state's Conceal Carry Permits so I'd be golden there. Here is a link to the actual Alabama Firearms and Weapons Law.

https://www.alabamaag.gov/Documents/firearms/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws.pdf

Thanks for posting the initial info Gunny5821, I wouldn't have even thought about it otherwise.

The law only applies to the State's description of a Bowie style knife, which courts have held to include butcher knives and machetes. Alabama law states, without a concealed carry permit, a handgun can only be transported from the place of purchase to your residence or from your residence to a range, but must be unloaded and separate from the ammunition. A judge once made the statement that since a Bowie Knife can't be unloaded, its always considered at the ready (No S*it). Alabama now allows open carry; however, it is a gray area and creates a problem of transporting from point A to point B, since Alabama has the 360 degree rule as far as vehicles go, there is no way to legally transport a handgun or bowie knife where it is within full view to law enforcement, therefore it is a concealed weapon. I'm considered a retired peace officer in the State of Alabama, although I didn't retire from an agency within the State, and I also served as a volunteer Sheriff's Posse Deputy (mounted search, rescue, and tracking) for a number of years until the previous sheriff was voted out. The Bowie knife issue came up from time to time with regular deputies, they would just laugh, but stated its the law and some young hotdog would be more than happy to ring your bell.

 

[cornstalk]

@Notchy Bob thanks for the Texas Fur Trade link. I've downloaded the doc.

@LRB I sent you a PM.

Thank you to everyone else for your contributions. My head is still swimming. And next winter when I'm again fishing the marsh of Louisiana it will take on a different significance knowing I'm actually in Jean Lafitte's pirate community (of a thousand folks) waters. You'd never guess it today because so much of the marsh is gone, just looks like a giant bay.

Anyway cool stuff learned from this book.

 

[flashpoint]

One of the most famous and controversial Bowie knives is the "MUSSO" bowie knife, purchased from Joe Musso by Phil Collins a few years ago. Below is a picture of it on the now defunct ALAMO JOURNAL, with my version laying on the magazine.

View attachment 110473View attachment 110473

Blade is 13 3/4" long, but it is not a heavy, nor awkward knife to wield. 2lb 12oz. I made this knife to the exact blueprint that Joe Musso drew. View attachment 110473

Beautiful work of art. What a talent you have.