Jeremiah Johnson Hawken

[Cowboy]

Went back home to Cody Wyoming to see my folks about 6 months ago. As always I stopped in to the Buffalo Bill Museum to check out the Hawken rifle’s.

A little personal history. I worked at the museum during high school. How I earned my running around money back then. Was an evening janitor. The Museum has really grown since those days! Everything now is behind glass. Great for protection of the artifacts but not so good for taking quality pictures! Way to much lighting that reflects off the glass.

Anyway, enough of my rambling on. Here are some pics of Jeremiah Johnson’s Hawken that I’d like to share with you my friends. Take note of the spelling of his last name on the description plaque!! Definitely caught my eye?

I’m going to post the rest of the Hawken Rifles on display at the museum in the Photo section of the forum.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[ppg1949]

I recently saw the museum on the show Ghost Hunters. The curator said over 400k come through there ever year. It’s really interesting you worked there among all the exhibits. I caught the spelling and thought I had been wrong all these years. A 56 caliber, I wonder if it started out a smaller caliber and was freshed out to a larger caliber? Thanks for sharing.

 

[plmeek]

The producers of the movie Jeremiah Johnson bought the rights to two books, Mountain Man by Vardis Fisher (1965) and Crow Killer by Raymond W. Thorp and Robert Bunker (1958). The book by Vardis Fisher was pure fiction but loosely based on a historical figure named John Johnston, the "Crow Killer". Fisher's character was named Samson John Minard in his book. He used Sam for short. The book by Thorp and Bunker is mostly fiction but might be described as a historical novel. Their character is identified as John Johnston at the beginning of the book, but for some odd reason they start using the spelling of Johnson on the first few pages and pretty much use that spelling through the rest of the book. The movie follows the Crow Killer more closely than the Mountain Man, but like Hollywood often does, they made a lot of changes.

I'm not sure where the producers and script writers came up with "Jeremiah" other than it sounded right to them. Probably reminded them of the name Jedediah.

The spelling on the the description plaque is correct. The real historical person was John "Liver-Eating" Johnston. Jeremiah Johnson is the Hollywood version.

 

[Thagomizer]

Cowboy, thanks for posting the pictures. I can't imagine living in Wyoming and then having to live in ......................Illinois. I lived there for the first 27 years of my life and can only say that as a gun owner, it's getting tough for anyone in that state.

 

[Cowboy]

Yes, The gun laws do suck in this god forsaken state. Luckily the wife retires in two years and then back home to Wyoming for good!!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Yes, The gun laws do suck in this god forsaken state. Luckily the wife retires in two years and then back home to Wyoming for good!!

Respectfully, Cowboy

Hang in there, Cowboy. Grew up 19 years there. Got out quick. Never going back, Illinois has no freedom and the people are utterly taxed to death.

 

[Cowboy]

Yes, My taxes are even being taxed! LOL

I created another thread in the Photo section of the forum. Buffalo Bill Historical Center Hawken Display.

Anyway, I also included pics of my childhood home and old stomping grounds back in Wyoming. Going back home to take over the family homestead after the wife retires here. Two more years!! You can check out more pics of original Hawken rifle’s and my past/future home.

I’m clicking my heels together while saying “ Take Me Home “ like Dorthy did on the Wizard of Oz. She went back to Kansas and I’m going back to Wyoming! LOL

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[bud in pa]

Supposedly Johnson was born In NJ. Figures, us people from NJ always get a bad rap. Most people from NJ don't even like calves liver let alone Crow liver.

 

[Bledfor Days]

You shouldered that rifle. Didn't ya?

 

[Cowboy]

You shouldered that rifle. Didn't ya?

Nooo! LOL!

I will add though, back in the day we helped transfer artifacts to and fro the vault rooms underneath the museum. They wanted to change up every now and then to placate repeat visitors. Nothing was behind glass in those days. Everything was roped off providing a safe distance from the artifacts.

The place has definitely grown since then. Everything is behind glass now. The security in that place is like Fort Knox.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[bigted]

From the pictures I see , that is very closely a maple stocked GPR. Lines and furniture look very close to my old eye.

Is this a fair statement? Or have I missed something?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Lyman did a pretty good job of adhering to the pattern.

 

[Art Caputo]

Supposedly Johnson was born In NJ. Figures, us people from NJ always get a bad rap. Most people from NJ don't even like calves liver let alone Crow liver.

LOL, don’t care much for any kind of liver.....Yes, also being born and raised in NJ, we surely do get a bad wrap. A genuine misconception, the area I live in was flush with deer, small game, and ducks. It’s been decades since I left. It certainly may have changed since, but it was a young kids paradise for hunting and fishing. Crummy photo, but my very first buck taken in NJ in the 70’s with a 50 cal TC Hawken I made from a kit. Back then it was shotgun/muzzleloader only. I understood why Jeremiah was so excited when he found Hatchett Jack froze to a tree with his 50cal Hawken.

 

[Herb]

I recently saw the museum on the show Ghost Hunters. The curator said over 400k come through there ever year. It’s really interesting you worked there among all the exhibits. I caught the spelling and thought I had been wrong all these years. A 56 caliber, I wonder if it started out a smaller caliber and was freshed out to a larger caliber? Thanks for sharing.

It is not .56 caliber. Bob and I handled, measured and photographed all these Hawkens in December, 2018 when they were out of exhibit. A museum uses a tapered bore gauge, and because all Hawkens have relieved muzzles, they read that. The museum technician did that while we watched. Liver Eating Johnson's rifle measured .583 at the crown but the bore actually is .537. I made sized bore gauges that I fasten onto a ram rod and insert into the bore, and this rifle has a good bore, .537 or .54 caliber. The barrel has a 1 in 48 inch twist, is 31 3/4 inches long ahead of the snail and measures 1.3" across the flats ahead of the snail and 1.218" at the muzzle. (The W.S. Hawken has the bore so corroded that I was not able to determine what the twist rate was but it is .555 caliber).

 

[ppg1949]

It is not .56 caliber. Bob and I handled, measured and photographed all these Hawkens in December, 2018 when they were out of exhibit. A museum uses a tapered bore gauge, and because all Hawkens have relieved muzzles, they read that. The museum technician did that while we watched. Liver Eating Johnson's rifle measured .583 at the crown but the bore actually is .537. I made sized bore gauges that I fasten onto a ram rod and insert into the bore, and this rifle has a good bore, .537 or .54 caliber. The barrel has a 1 in 48 inch twist, is 31 3/4 inches long ahead of the snail and measures 1.3" across the flats ahead of the snail and 1.218" at the muzzle. (The W.S. Hawken has the bore so corroded that I was not able to determine what the twist rate was but it is .555 caliber).

Wow, that is very interesting. Was the wider crown bore done to easy loading or some other reason. And one rifle had a 1:48 twist that is even more interesting. Thanks for your very interesting info.

 

[Jacobeen]

Herb, did you also note any dimensions from the W&B knife, while there and perhaps whether the pins were iron or brass? Thank you for your efforts on what must have been difficult photography.

 

[bigted]

My understanding is that most if not all of Samuel Hawkins rifles were 1 in 48 inch twist barrels.

Do not know where I got this info.

 

[springfield art]

Cowboy, thanks for posting the pictures. I can't imagine living in Wyoming and then having to live in ......................Illinois. I lived there for the first 27 years of my life and can only say that as a gun owner, it's getting tough for anyone in that state.

At what point do "they" say, oh, we have to lighten up or else we're "infringing"? Never, I guess, it's like the frog in the heating water...

 

[Zonie]

To all:

Discussing political issues can only be done in the Premium Members area. It is against the forum rules to talk about it elsewhere.

 

[Herb]

We took photos of these rifles, but mine are too large to post here. I cropped two, hope they are small enough. This is Liver Eating Johnson's Lock. Muzzle photo didn't post. Jacobeen, we saw only the Hawkens laid out on a table for us to examine, measure and photograph. Took most of the day. Don't know about a knife.