Jim Bridger Hawken

[wattlebuster]

Im saving the Bridger for my young whippersnapper grandsons. this fat old man hunts with a 7 1/2 lb rifle. Im already tuckered out :thumbsup:

 

LaBonte,
You are right, they were older. And I'd bet a dime to a donut that they got smarter about how much a rifle weighs as they got older, just like we do.
Mark

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Well, it is a big deal for me. A 11-12lb gun at 11,000 ft at my age is a load. The original mountain men had horses.

And they were 20 years old!......I like a light rifle now too! :thumbsup:

Jim Bridger was in his fifties when he carried that particular rifle which is a late era (1850's) Sam Hawken.


As to age 68 - Edward Robinson was 66 when he died in the Rockies - lost his hair in Kentucky and his life in Idaho. Etienne Provost was another old timer in his fifties as were Bill Williams and Kit Carson - all continued to live and work in the mountains in various capacites well into older age. True most mountaineers were younger, but there were in fact a fair number of older men as well.

Huge difference between 50's and 60's. You'll find out.

 

[longrifle346]

Well said sir...well said.

 

[Bill Hall]

I always assumed those big heavy Hawkens weren't toted around on foot, so much, with the mountain men, but mostly carried on horseback. I've read quite a few accounts of mountain men riding to a good spot, or seeing an animal a ways off, then dismounting to put the sneak on a certain animal. I'm sure there were plenty of times when guys hunted on foot, just around their cabin or camp, but I beleive the majority of the carrying was done while riding.

In fact, my gut feeling tells me that the main reason Hawken rifles were built so heavy and robust was to withstand the amount of abuse it had to endure from months, or years, of being carried by on horseback. I don't believe the robust style enhanced power, no matter how heavily a rifle is built, it really doesn't have much more power that any Eastern style of rifle of the same caliber. I think if mountain men walked everywhere, instead of riding, a Pennsylvania type rifle would suit western demands just fine. But a rifle carried by a rider, or tied to a saddle, will need to be hardy enough to handle constant bouncing, bumping into trees and rocks, and being dropped from higher distances. The shorter length of the Hawken makes it easier to handle while riding, like negotiating through tree limbs, and makes for quicker retrieval when pulled out of a saddle sheath.

Just a theory here, but it does seem to make sense, to me anyway. :wink: Bill

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Plus in my case i'm up at tree line. The MM were trapping for beaver. No beaver at tree line.

Plus plus, I'll hunt with what I want. :blah:

 

I sure will, a couple of weeks away. Can not wait!

 

The whole wait was not bad at all. This rifle was in the works and I called at the right time. Total two months. The barrel by the way is an H&H. Keep you posted.

 

Snowdragon, to recap what I had posted earlier. This rifle is of more likness of a true Hawken and not the Jim Bridger. Also the barrel is a H&H and not a Rice.
I know I will be more than happy with this rifle, and will share pics when I get her.

 

[Dphar]

LaBonte,
You are right, they were older. And I'd bet a dime to a donut that they got smarter about how much a rifle weighs as they got older, just like we do.
Mark

Bridger apparently didn't. Its common for moderns to try to put their opinions and abilities onto other people. Bridger was probably in better shape after his eyesight failed and he moved east than we are now.

This is the actual rifle in Helena MT. Its a full size 54 caliber late Hawken rifle. Suspect it weighs 12 pounds.
And its sighted for about 150 yards.

Everyone ages differently. In his mid-60s my dad was still working on USFS firefighting crews and was told he was the oldest man in the computer actively fighting fires.
Most people fall prey to genetics or simply not staying active enough.
Most of us are 20-40 pounds overweight. Its not likely Bridger was. So he could carry a heavier rifle since he was not packing an extra 10-20 pounds of lard like I am.
Walking 3-4 miles a day in summer does wonders for my hunting.
Hunting with an 11 pound rifle and a pack weighing about 15-20 pounds lost me about 20 pounds last season.
I'm 61.

Dan

 

[Bill Hall]

Ok, I'm assuming "in the works" means you ordered a rifle from the maker, via TOW, and the one on Track's site is just typical of the maker's work. Is that right? I'm just curious how they do it at Track.

I couldn't find a weight for the rifle, but maybe because I gave it the "man" look. I'm also curious as to how much the rifle weighs. Any idea?

True-to-form Hawkens are funtional artwork, and this maker obviously knows his stuff. They're not for me, but I sure love 'em :thumbsup: Bill

 

[BrownBear]

Ok, I'm assuming "in the works" means you ordered a rifle from the maker, via TOW, and the one on Track's site is just typical of the maker's work. Is that right? I'm just curious how they do it at Track.

I couldn't find a weight for the rifle, but maybe because I gave it the "man" look. I'm also curious as to how much the rifle weighs. Any idea?

True-to-form Hawkens are funtional artwork, and this maker obviously knows his stuff. They're not for me, but I sure love 'em :thumbsup: Bill

I can't say about that particular Hawken, but I can give you the stats for mine. It's a GRRW Hawken built and signed on the bottom flat at the breech by Ron Paull, with whom I'm in contact. It's as close to Hawken lines and details as he could make it. With it's 36" 1 1/8" x 1" tapered 58 caliber barrel it tips the scale right at 12.5 pounds. It's got some muzzle weight for easy offhand shooting, but thanks to the taper it belies the weight till late in a long day.... Or early in the season when I'm not in the shape I should be in! :rotf:

 

[LaBonte]

Huge difference between 50's and 60's. You'll find out.

Consider the life Jim had led since 1822 to 1865 when he sold that rifle, he was in his 60's when he sold it - standing in ice water while trapping, having at least two arrows dug out of his back, etc. Be he 50 or 60 he was one tough character.
And FWI - I'm 58, but my body due to various injuries and on going illnesses it is more like 68 - so yeah I know all about getting older and slower....but I still carry a 10.5 rifle when hunting although I don't hunt the real high country and FWIW neither did the trappers. Reasons - one the game just wasn't there - elk for instance have only become high country critters in about the last 100 years, prior to that they were plains and foothill game.

Dan - I got to handle the Bridger rifle back in the 1970's when it got loaned to GRRW and the weight is a bit over 10.5 pounds (IIRC caliber is .53 not .54), which is typical of both Hawkens and western trade rifles (i.e. Henry's, Lehman's, etc.) of the 1830-60's period.

Regarding short barrels/heavy rifles and horse - the idea that the reason for the shorter heavier barrels is one of those myth conceptions that just won't die.
1) Easterners generally rode/packed horses just as much as those in the west and like many in the west carried heavy, long barreled rifles - long hunters, market hunters, et al all need horses to pack hides, meat, etc. Those
2) Short heavier barreled rifles were being touted by not only the English makers, but also by those in powere in the US - the M1803 Harpers Ferry and a recommendation by the head of the early Indian service for short barreled guns are examples of such guns long before the Hawken Bros and others beagn building western mountain rifles.
3) During the early Hawken Period (1822-1840) most of the rifles built by the Brothers were full-stocked with barrels in the 38-40" range with a final weight of around 10-11 pounds. This was also in keeping with the eastern trade rifles which based on the orders to the Henry Company, averaged 38-44" for barrels and guns by demand weighed 9-11 lbs. This size is in keeping for many of the eastern made big game rifles - - look at the weight of original long rifles and most are in that same 9-11 lb range and not the light wwights encounterd today.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

To be honest. I have no problem carrying a 12lb gun. I just choose not to. I've worked out my whole life. I hike the mountains 365 days a year. I'm leaving today right after this post.

6'1" 190lbs and 32" waist. I never let myself get out of shape.

 

Snowdragon,I know of the rifle that TOW has from Brant Selb. TOW never gets his good works if you know what I mean, basically if Brant has a rifle left over or has what I call a seconds rifle, he will offer it to TOW. By the way I am not speaking bad of TOW, they have some incredible rifles, sometimes I feel a little to expensive, but I guess you have to pay not to wait.The way I got mine is I called Brant Selb and spoke with him. He was working on a .56 cal. Hawken rifle, and I asked him if it was for sale, and the rest is history. He built the rest of it to my specs, meaning plain, but beautiful. Hammer, etc has been sent out to be case hardened. As far as the weight I am not sure as of yet, but will keep you posted, it is as true to the original Hawkens from the day.
I will share pics when I get it in a couple of weeks.
Aim small, miss small...