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norSSeman

32 Cal.
Joined
May 18, 2004
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Let me introduce myself. I am semi-retired Meteorologist,
and also worked as a Port Securityman in the Coast Guard
Reserve. Live in Eastern Washington State, but since I work Saturdays can't attend the local Black Powder Club meetings or get togethers.. :(

Have been collecting Military surplus Rifles and now with my interest in History have moved into Muzzleloaders, buying a Kentucky/Pennsylvannia Rifle from Traditions as a starter.

Am looking for a good detailed book with sharp photos or a Video on Beginning Muzzleloading. Does anyone have any ideas about such a book or video?
 
Welcome.

Video? You don't need no steenking video! You hav this excellent resource. Ask away, do a few searches on specific topics, check the links page for feature articles and suppliers. We'll take care of you.

All you really need to know is in-lines cause brain atrophy and real powder is black. The rest you can pick up here.
 
You've gotten some good advice from Birddog6, and Stumpkiller!!! Now,,, ask for a Saturday off and get to that monthly shoot... You will be amazed at what you can learn from those folks out there... After you come back from that monthly shoot, let us know what you learned and we'll tell you if it's right... :winking: Actually, the shoots are the best place to learn things. Muzzleloading folks are always willing to offer up advice and help should you run into a snag... Welcome to the sport. It's a lifetime of enjoyment! :)
 
I have to agree with BD6, Stump and Joe.
The Lyman book is well worth having. Going to a shoot (if you can) is great and muzzleloading shooters enjoy helping people.

In fact, this Forum is crawling with long time muzzleloading shooters who are in my opnion the best of the best when it comes to knowledge on the subject. Many have been shooting muzzleloading guns (rifles, shotguns, muskets and more) for over 30 years.
No question is to small. Any question which has been asked before will gladly be answered again. That is the kind of people who come to this site daily.
I would sound like a Circus Barker but I could easily say, pick a subject...any subject (on any aspect of muzzleloading)...won't cost you a dime and you might even find a little humor along with the learning.

Welcome to the Muzzleloading Forum!!!

Hay Claude, do I get that raise now? ::

Seriously, this is indeed the very best Black Powder Muzzleloading web site in the world. Over 800 members can't be wrong!
 
Let me introduce myself. I am semi-retired Meteorologist...

There's your answer to saturday off, predict a flood and you need to have saturday off to sand-bag your house... :winking:

Glad you found us...
 
In addition to all of the above excellent advice (ignore the flood prediction...tell 'em your grandma died), I urge you to join the National Muzzleloading Rifle[url] Association...in[/url] addition to other benefits, its magazine, "Muzzle Blasts" has good info. An even better magazine IMHO, is Muzzleloader published by Scurlock Press out of Texas....either or both will open your eyes to the variety of what is to be learned, and will help in the learning...Hank
 
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Another good magazine to get ahold of is MUZZLOADER. It has more historical articles and is directed more at the historical shooter than the hunter.

C F
 
Expect my new Kentucky Rifle in a few days. It's a
percussion. What do I need to load, fire and maintain
this .50 Cal BP rifle and where is a good reasonable
place to buy the extras.
 
Now wait a minute there. I wrote, produced and narrated the Traditions muzzleloader video. I think it is excellent. (Available through Cabela's and most excellent muzzleloading retailers).
 
Well, I didn't realize a native son had put his hand to a project of this nature. I recant my earlier dismissal - and will rely on you to answer pleas for assistance from the pilgrims here assembled most graciously in the future. ::

(I do, and always will, consider myself a pilgrim as this journey won't be done until I begin the final one).
 
Need some help partners. Have been looking at the Traditions BP rifles page and they have two different
Shooters kits, one is for pellets and one is for powder.
What are pellets? I am guessing either black powder made into pellets or pellets like in shot for ducks??

Have found two or three videos by the way on Beginning Black Powder shooting, but none at Cabelos.
 
You don't want the one for pellets. That is designed for inlines(YUK). The pellets are little cylinders of compressed pyrodex, a black powder substitute. Now you can use pyrodex powder in your rifle since it is a caplock, but most here will probably advise real black powder. I use both. Some people find real black powder hard to find and pyrodex is sometimes all they can get. Either will work ok. I would recommend Pyrodex P if you decide to use pyrodex, and 3f if you use real BP. You will also need some patching, either pre-cut patches or pillow ticking or drill cloth to make your own, and some .490 or .495 rd. balls. Also i would suggest CCI magnum #11 caps. They work better with pyrodex and work good for real BP too. I would start at about 60 grs. of powder and work up 5 grs at a time until you find the most accurate load. Fire a few 5 shot groups with each charge to make sure of it. Hope this helps. Welcome to the sport and have fun and be safe.
 
hey norsman....

The pellets alluded to are Pyrodex pellets, wannabe black powder. Fake stuff!!!

All personal opinions aside if a person wants the utmost in convenience one would have to assume these are the way to go. They are mostly intended for the in-line market as most guys who shoot traditional BP firearms dump loads from a horn or charger. I have no personal experience with them so I can't offer you any information.

A good load to start with in your 50 cal is 50 grains of either FFg or FFFg. I shot 50 grs. of black for years in matches and it was accurate, mild and clean.....or as clean as black powder gets. I like all the oomph I can get for hunting loads, whether they are really necessary or not, and I always used 90 grs. of FFg or FFFg in my 50's, when I shot 50's. Those two loads are pretty much standard for 50's among the guys I used to shoot and hunt with. I'm confident others will have preferred loads that work just as well.

As you're new to muzzleloading start with a light load because there is minimal recoil and lighter loads are often, not always, but often more accurate. A lighter load will allow you to familiarize yourself with your rifle without the distractions of recoil and muzzle blast. If you're like most of us probably were when we started you're going to be concerned with the loading process and all the paraphanalia and proper steps that go along with shooting a muzzleloader. Therefore you don't need thumped on or blown away by muzzle blast. Become familiar with your rifle and the procedure first. Then work on accuracy and after that work up to the heavier, hunting loads.

Having said that, a 50 cal. isn't going to thump on you like a 30-06 or my 416 Rigby, even with heavy hunting loads. Black powder has a considerably different recoil than smokeless. In my opinion, but I shoot a LOT, a 50 cal muzzleloader shooting a patched round ball would have to weigh 5 lbs. or less before recoil became an issue. I have to believe that is why the stocks were styled and/or designed the way they were back then. Any of those stock designs with modern loads would hurt like the devil and leave black and blue marks under our cheek. I believe most guys on this board would agree with me when I say that when it comes to muzzleloaders shooting a patched round ball 50 cal. isn't that big. I've been shooting 54'sfor years now but that isn't that big either. It is at the top end conventional calibers. 62 cal is about where you start talking "big bore" with muzzleloaders.

Welp....the wife says supper is ready....sorry to stop in the middle but I'm sure you will get more and better info from guys more knowledgeable than myself. Listen to them, they know whereof they speak.

Vic
 
Pellets is what them as can't figure out 280 year old technology use as a crutch. You don't want that. Real men use real powder - blackpowder. Say it with me: "blackpowder". Pellets are pre-measured chunks of a black powder substitute. They're for guys with sports cars that have automatic shifts and who would rather watch a hunting show on elk than be out in the woods poppin squirrels. You don't need it.

The Duke wouldn't use it.

802080_a.jpg
 
The "pellets" you see are compressed Pyrodex. They are designed for use in In-Line guns and will not work well in a sidelock style rifle.

There are several different powders you can use in your rifle.

The FIRST is traditional Black Powder. This comes in various granuale sizes. These are graded by a number of "F" s followed by a lower case g. They will look like "FFg" or "FFFg". The more "F"s in the grade, the finer the granuale size is.

Most books recommend using the 3F in guns .45 cal or smaller and the 2F in guns .50 or larger.
Many people at this site have found the 3F (FFFg) creates a little less fouling when it is fired.

Either the FFg (sometimes called 2F) or the FFFg (3F) will work in your gun.
The biggest problem with real Black Powder is it is not easily found in Gun Stores in a lot of citys. Ordering it from Mail Order houses is also rather expensive because of the Hazardous Shipping fees.

The SECOND Powder available at a large number of gun stores is called PYRODEX. It will work well in your Precussion gun and doesn't foul as badly as real black powder.
This comes in three grades.
"PS" (very similar to 3F in its burning rate). The P stands for Pistol but it will work in rifles as well.
"RS" which is made for rifles (and shotguns) will work well in your gun.
"Select" which is RS with IMO a higher price tag and no real benifits except sometimes it is all that is available.

The THIRD Powder which is fairly new on the market is called
"777". It is a little more powerful than Black Powder or Pyrodex. IMO it is really made for the In-Line guns but it will work in Precussion sidelocks as long as it is in granular form. Some like it, some don't.

You will need precussion Caps. These look like little copper cups and they are placed on the nipple prior to firing the gun.
Caps come in three sizes. #10 (for pistols) #11 (for rifles) and "Musket". You will want the #11 size.
In the #11 size, there are the regular Caps and Magnimum caps. Both will work for you. The reliability of the gun will be a little better with the Magnums.

You will need projectiles.
For economy, I would suggest using Round Balls. In my town they run about $8.50/100.
These come in various diameters and the thing to remember is they must be smaller than the bore of your gun (.50 cal). Most people start with a ball which is .010 undersize which would be a .490 Diameter for your gun.

You will need patches.
Patches seal the gap between the ball and the rifling. They grab the rifling in the bore and impart spin to the ball for good accuracy.
These are made of cloth and have two requirements. They must be made of Cotton. No man made material or mix of man made material and cotton will work well.
They must also be the right thickness. Too thin and they won't seal the rifling grooves. Too thick and they are hard to load.
You can buy patches at many gun stores and some of them are Pre Lubricated. I would recommend these pre lubricated patches for the beginning shooter. The thickness you should look for (if you use a .490 diameter ball) is between .014 and .019. I would lean towards the .015 for starters.

You should buy a good ramrod. The ones that come with most factory guns will work but many of them are not made right and will break. If they break they can poke a nasty hole in your hand.
I recommend a steel ramrod with a sliding plastic cone on it. This cone fits in the muzzle during loading and will protect it from abrasion.
If you cannot find a good metal ramrod a fiberglass one will work temporarly. Most people think fiberglass is too abrasive at the muzzle but if it has a tapered plastic guide that should not be a problem.

The end of the ramrod will need a "cleaning jag" made for your guns caliber. This screws into the end of the ramrod and provides a good surface against the ball when your ramming it down against the powder. (The ball MUST be firmly seated on the powder charge.)
It also is used along with cleaning rags/patches (not the shooting patches, use the same kind of soft patches you would use in a regular rifle) to clean the gun when your done shooting.

A Powder Measure
Although Black powder is measured in grains, it is done using a volume method, not on some scales. You can get pre set measures or adjustable measures.
You will want one which is made to measure 50 grains or more for your .50 caliber gun. I would suggest getting the adjustable style.

Most people use a Starting Ball or block to start the bullet/patch into the bore and shove it down about 3 inches.
These look like a wooden ball with a 3 inch long dowel and a 1/8 inch long dowel sticking out the sides.
The short dowel is used to start the Ball/Patch in the muzzle and the 3 inch long dowel is used to push the load down the barrel so the ramrod will align properly.

Lubrication
Patch Lubrication is intended to ease loading, protect the patch from burning and provide a material which will keep the fouling soft after the shot.
It doesn't take a lot of this lubrication on the patch. Just enough to coat all of the surfaces.
Many commercial products are on the market.
For a first time shooter, you can use Crisco or spit.
A patch well moistened with saliva will work and some shooters are convinced it it the best. I prefer the Commercial lubes because there is less chanch of rusting the bore of the gun and they leave lubrication behind to keep the fouling soft.

Shooting glasses
Any will do but they are important when firing a muzzleloader.
When the precussion cap fires, it is often blown to pieces and you really don't want one of those in your eye.

Well, If you have all of this stuff, your almost all set.

As I mentioned, the powder charge is measured by volume.
For a muzzle loading gun, the best place to start is with the same amount of powder as the bore of the gun.
This would be 45 grains for a .45 cal, or 50 grains for a .50 cal. gun.
As with any gun, each one will shoot best with it's own special load. If you start with 50 grains and the group size is determined, change the load to 55 grains and try it.
I would guess somewhere between 50 and 80 grains you will notice the group size getting smaller and then opening up.

The gun will give a maximum load, and it will be about 100 grains. This load is best for hunting but will rarely give the best target groups.

Well, for now that is about it. I know you will have more questions, so, as I said before, feel free to ask.
:)
 
Thanks for the good and thorough detailed info, it will
be helpful I'm sure. Now just have to find a place that
sells black powder.
 
NorSSeman: If you call around, and the shops don't have Black Powder, before you let them off the hook don't forget to ask about Pyrodex.

One thing about Black Powder that is very different from Smokeless is the need to clean your gun right after your done shooting.
Where modern smokeless powder can be left in the barrel for a day or two without cleaning, with Black Powder or any of the newer Black Powder substitutes you MUST clean it right away.
If you don't clean it it will cause Bad Rusting within a day here in dry Arizona. If you live in a humid area, the rusting will start within a few hours if not cleaned.

The best cleaner is just water. Most people like to wipe the bore with a patch soaked in water and dish soap first.
You don't need the special Black Powder solvents or similar things when water and dish soap works just as good.

By the way, I forgot to mention you really should get a "Nipple Wrench" in addition to all of the other stuff. If you don't have one a little adjustable wrench can be made to work.

A lot has been written on this site about cleaning so if you have nothing better to do, poke the SEARCH button. At the top type in CLEAN or CLEANING. Set the BEFORE box to be clear (default is something like 1 day). Set the box below it to be AFTER 1 DAY and poke the search button.
I may have the titles of the boxes messed up a little but you will see what I mean when you try it.
You will have a wealth of knowledge to read.
 
The above is one of the best parts of black powder shootin. There are so many knowledgable people willing to spend their time helping a person learn the sport.
 

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