Just scored a nice rifle and need a bit of help

[Spencer_Murphy]

Today a few hours ago I stopped by my local gun shop. Im good friends with the owner and he asked me to stop in and look at a piece he got on consignment. I was shocked when I saw that it was an 1853 Pattern Enfield rifle. It is an original made in 1862 with N.J. stamped on the barrel. The owner had also given a list of information about the rifle to be sold with it. The rifle was one of many captured from Confederate soldiers on the retreat at the Battle of South Mountain by the 4th NJ Infantry. We fired it in his indoor range and it worked great with CCI Musket Caps. (On the third cap) we used a .575 lee bullet but I would like to use the paper cartridge method when I take it hunting. Does anyone know where I can find some already cast .563"~.568" bullets ? I ordered a .568" mould from NOE but it wont come in time for me to get everything ready. I emailed Dixie Gun Works but wont expect a reply until next week. If anyone know what im talking about it is a Pritchett style bullet that is smooth all around. Worse comes to worse I will use the .575" but I would like to use paper cartridges. Thanks to all who reply I will post some photos soon. On a side note why are the CCI Musket caps unrelaible ? Does anyone know of a better musket cap ?

 

[Phil Coffins]

Don’t know why CCI musket caps are considered by some to be unreliable. They have been working every time in my 1863 Shiloh Sharps.

 

[Bad Karma]

Today a few hours ago I stopped by my local gun shop. Im good friends with the owner and he asked me to stop in and look at a piece he got on consignment. I was shocked when I saw that it was an 1853 Pattern Enfield rifle. It is an original made in 1862 with N.J. stamped on the barrel. The owner had also given a list of information about the rifle to be sold with it. The rifle was one of many captured from Confederate soldiers on the retreat at the Battle of South Mountain by the 4th NJ Infantry. We fired it in his indoor range and it worked great with CCI Musket Caps. (On the third cap) we used a .575 lee bullet but I would like to use the paper cartridge method when I take it hunting. Does anyone know where I can find some already cast .563"~.568" bullets ? I ordered a .568" mould from NOE but it wont come in time for me to get everything ready. I emailed Dixie Gun Works but wont expect a reply until next week. If anyone know what im talking about it is a Pritchett style bullet that is smooth all around. Worse comes to worse I will use the .575" but I would like to use paper cartridges. Thanks to all who reply I will post some photos soon. On a side note why are the CCI Musket caps unrelaible ? Does anyone know of a better musket cap ?

Grafs and Powder inc both have Schuetzen musket caps. They’re very good.

 

[Spencer_Murphy]

Don’t know why CCI musket caps are considered by some to be unreliable. They have been working every time in my 1863 Shiloh Sharps.

Maybe they were just duds it took 3 caps to set em off, i saw a video of 2ndUSSS reenactors putting powder in the caps and then spraying them with hair spray to keep it seated in there. They were using 1859 Berdan Sharps though with the paper cartridges.

 

[Whitworth]

Wow, I'm jealous, what a find with that particular history South Mountain was spitting distance from my boyhood home in Boonsboro and had a friend that lived right at Turner's Gap. All I have ever used were RWS caps, maybe using a nipple primer with 4F might help with the CCI caps. Might check with Brett Gibbons at Paper Cartridges for Enfield bullets and cartridges.

 

[Spencer_Murphy]

Wow, I'm jealous, what a find with that particular history South Mountain was spitting distance from my boyhood home in Boonsboro and had a friend that lived right at Turner's Gap. All I have ever used were RWS caps, maybe using a nipple primer with 4F might help with the CCI caps. Might check with Brett Gibbons at Paper Cartridges for Enfield bullets and cartridges.

Yea the owner got all his information from when he purchased the rifle from the Baltimore GAR when it closed in 1957 it all checks out with the Civil War Trust too which certified his documents. Pretty cool to own a piece of Maryland history.

 

[Whitworth]

Yea the owner got all his information from when he purchased the rifle from the Baltimore GAR when it closed in 1957 it all checks out with the Civil War Trust too which certified his documents. Pretty cool to own a piece of Maryland history.

Wow, that's some pedigree. Documentation from a GAR Hall doesn't get any better than that. With a little digging it seems your rifle was likely captured at Crampton's Gap (near Burkettsville) on South Mountain Sept 14th 1862, about 4 miles from where I now live. Seems the 4th had been re-issued .69 smoothbores (after having been being captured and exchanged in prisoner swap) due to a rifle shortage and gladly relieved the dead and captured Southern Gentlemen of their Enfields. With so much use of captured ammo by the South it's hard to tell who fired what at who but if you would like a bullet I've dug metal detecting from Crampton's Gap to go with that rifle shoot me a message with your address.

 

[Spencer_Murphy]

Wow, that's some pedigree. Documentation from a GAR Hall doesn't get any better than that. With a little digging it seems your rifle was likely captured at Crampton's Gap (near Burkettsville) on South Mountain Sept 14th 1862, about 4 miles from where I now live. Seems the 4th had been re-issued .69 smoothbores (after having been being captured and exchanged in prisoner swap) due to a rifle shortage and gladly relieved the dead and captured Southern Gentlemen of their Enfields. With so much use of captured ammo by the South it's hard to tell who fired what at who but if you would like a bullet I've dug metal detecting from Crampton's Gap to go with that rifle shoot me a message with your address.

Yea the documentation specifies that they were given smoothbores it actually states that they were given 1816 models converted to percussion and the soldiers were afraid to fire them and gladly picked up the enfields. This is the GAR document so the authenticity is whatever thr GAR decided appropriate.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Pat Kaboskey may be your best bet for bullets. I can't say that he has exactly what you're looking for, but it wouldn't hurt to contact him and ask. His contact information is on the Lodgewood Mfg. website, here: Pat Kaboskey Bullets

Did the first two caps not go off at all, or did they just not detonate the powder charge? If the caps popped and the gun didn't shoot an obstruction might have been the problem.

As far as I know, the only musket caps available from CCI are their "Reenactor" caps, and a lot of people don't like them. The story is that a reenactor several years ago caught a cap fragment in his eye and sued the manufacturer, which was CCI. After the dust settled, they elected to make the priming charge in their musket caps weaker, so the caps would be less likely to fragment. Note that reenactors shooting blanks typically have the flash hole in the nipple drilled out to around 0.080". I have an M1842 smoothbore repro that came with a drilled-out nipple, and I recall actually seeing powder in the nipple when I capped it. So, the weaker caps work well with blanks and nipples with big flash holes; ignition is not a problem. Many people will tell you they are unreliable, and I have also heard they contribute to inaccuracy. I have used them, with normal-sized flash holes in the nipple, and not had any ignition problems, and I am such a lousy shot I probably wouldn't notice a difference in accuracy. However, I have some RWS and some old Navy Arms musket caps that I would use preferentially if I were hunting or shooting in a match, just because of the CCI's reputation.

Sometimes the CCI Reenactor caps are all you can get, for one reason or another, or you might have a quantity of them and just want to use them up. You may want to assess the mainspring of the Enfield, just to make sure it is strong enough to make the hammer really whack the cap. I would also try replacing the nipple. According to the Regimental Quartermaster, original Enfields used a 5/16" x 18 nipple, and they appear to have them in stock.

Good luck!

Notchy Bob

 

[Spencer_Murphy]

Pat Kaboskey may be your best bet for bullets. I can't say that he has exactly what you're looking for, but it wouldn't hurt to contact him and ask. His contact information is on the Lodgewood Mfg. website, here: Pat Kaboskey Bullets

Did the first two caps not go off at all, or did they just not detonate the powder charge? If the caps popped and the gun didn't shoot an obstruction might have been the problem.

As far as I know, the only musket caps available from CCI are their "Reenactor" caps, and a lot of people don't like them. The story is that a reenactor several years ago caught a cap fragment in his eye and sued the manufacturer, which was CCI. After the dust settled, they elected to make the priming charge in their musket caps weaker, so the caps would be less likely to fragment. Note that reenactors shooting blanks typically have the flash hole in the nipple drilled out to around 0.080". I have an M1842 smoothbore repro that came with a drilled-out nipple, and I recall actually seeing powder in the nipple when I capped it. So, the weaker caps work well with blanks and nipples with big flash holes; ignition is not a problem. Many people will tell you they are unreliable, and I have also heard they contribute to inaccuracy. I have used them, with normal-sized flash holes in the nipple, and not had any ignition problems, and I am such a lousy shot I probably wouldn't notice a difference in accuracy. However, I have some RWS and some old Navy Arms musket caps that I would use preferentially if I were hunting or shooting in a match, just because of the CCI's reputation.

Sometimes the CCI Reenactor caps are all you can get, for one reason or another, or you might have a quantity of them and just want to use them up. You may want to assess the mainspring of the Enfield, just to make sure it is strong enough to make the hammer really whack the cap. I would also try replacing the nipple. According to the Regimental Quartermaster, original Enfields used a 5/16" x 18 nipple, and they appear to have them in stock.

Good luck!

Notchy Bob

There wasnt any obstruction in the nipple bolster, I think it was due to the age of the caps. The third one had a more distinct snap noise when it went off and it left burnt marks inside the cap where as the first two did not. So far I have fired the rifle 3 more times no issues so it might have been bad luck. Like I mentioned earlier I found some youtube videos of Civil War reenactors using a bit of powder and hairspray to the give the caps an extra flash when they are used on musket nipples and especially on original rifles. I have 300 of the 4 wing caps so Im definitely gonna use em up. Will also look into your reccomendation for bullets. I see TOTW has some .577 grease groove balls as well but they arent exactly what I want. I will find a picture of what I am looking for and post it in this thread tomorrow morning. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Don’t know why CCI musket caps are considered by some to be unreliable. They have been working every time in my 1863 Shiloh Sharps.

Ditto!

 

[nit wit]

RWS Caps. Check your nipple.
Nit Wit

 

[Widows Son]

Congratulations on your rifle musket. Wonderful to have a usable relic from the mid 19th century.

There are knowledgeable people here that know much more than me, but there were differences in paper cartridges used with that weapon.

The superior cartridge of them all was the British Pritchett design. The US version was more of a convenient envelope with powder and ball. YouTube has numerous good videos about making either kind.

Replacement nipples are easily available and cheap. Treso makes lots of them. The UK Enfield nipple thread is 5/16x18. They also make nipples that will take a standard #11 cap if musket caps are not always available.

Best wishes

 

[TDM]

I would at least treat your Gun shop friend to lunch. Congrats on your Enfield.