Just starting out.

[Sproogle]

Hello all. I'm new to the forum, and have been collecting medieval close combat weapons for some time now, and was thinking of delving into the world of blackpowder firearms, specifically starting small with a flintlock pistol, but I have a few questions. As a rule, I never purchase a weapon of any kind without learning everything I can about it first, and this looks like a fine forum to do just that!

The gun I was looking at specifically is a Dragoon pistol from the Middlesex Village Trading Companie:
[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/NEWbritdrag.shtml[/url]

In the site's FAQ, he says his guns are made in India, but contends that they are as well-crafted as any other gun. Would this be a problem?

Also, does anyone know of any good books to purchase or sites to visit for me to find a good diagram of precisely how a flintlock works? I am familiar with all of the terms, firing procedures and whatnot, but I want to know exactly how the innards work.

Are liscences for blackpowder firearms any more difficult to obtain than a regular one? Is there even a difference?

And finally, I live near Chicago, so does anyone know offhand if it would be a chore to find a range that allows blackpowder?

Any information would be gladly accepted!

 

[mastrsgt]

Sproogle,

I have a Long Land musket from MVTC and I am satisfied with it. For the price it seems to be well made. I use it for reenacting but intend to try some live fire when I can.

MVTC has been very responsive to my inquiries to them.

I can't help you with the rest of your questions, but I'm sure you will get a lot of help from the other forum members.

This is a great place to get information about anything related to mussle loaders of any kind.

Welcome to the forum.

Don R

 

[Homesteader]

I'm only replying to the question about "license" to have a blackpowder arm. (I'll try to resist my natural inclincation to suggest that your license for any arm is that pesky second amendment and even earlier "Natural Law" on which it was based.)

The Fed Gov and it's BATF does not consider muzzleloading arms or other "antiques", whether actual or reproduction, to be firearms at all, and are therefore excempt from their rules. Most states defer to the federal definition, but some do not. Also, some municipalities can specifically write rules regarding these arms.

Go to the NRA's site to find the status of these blackpowder arms in your particular location. I seem to remember it's easy to navigate.

Good luck. You're gonna love these things!

 

[Sproogle]

I can't quite find a regulation for Illinois. If anyone from Illinois could help me out, I would appriciate it. I guess what would help me the most is a general guidebook. I'm a longbow archer, and have studied The Witchery of Archery for tips. Is there somesort of comparable text that is highly esteemed as a good recource for muzzleloading enthusiasts?

 

[stacks]

Sproogle, I'm not the expert, but, I do work in law enforcement. Found that Massachussets requires a handgun permit for Muzzleloader handguns, probably due to their concealability. Jersey, California, and New York are the other "heavy" weapon's laws states that come to mind.

I work in Missouri and a concealable firearm is defined as any firearm concealed, "readily avaliable for lethal use". I would say if you're tucking your flintlock pistol, "loaded", under your shirt, "You be busted". I'm sure thats not your intent. I don't believe you have to have any kind of permit to own one in IL, Heck you can buy them from Cabellas and have 'em shipped UPS. You get the picture.

The best source of information would be your local gun dealer, it's their business to know that stuff. Even us cops have to ask the experts sometimes. Rots of Ruck.....

 

[Tracy]

The first thing you need is a FOID card.

 

[rickystl]

Sproogle: Welcome to the Site!! I've been shooting ML since the mid-60's. There's people on this site that have forgotten more than I know. I too collect the medieval weapons, as well as shoot ML's. It's all horribly addicting. I own the pistol you are looking at. Very satisfied with it. And, MVTC has great service. The India made guns have improved alot over the last two years. I have not shot my Dragoon because it is at Gunsmith Mike Brooks for antique refinishing. But you don't need to do this to shoot it. It's just my personel taste. By the way, I was raised in a suburb of Chicago - Northbrook. When I was young I use to go to a public range called: Fox Valley. That was back in the 60's. Probably not there now? Anyway, welcome to the Forum. Rick.

 

[AzShooter]

Black Powder weapons have their own set of rules. I remember the case of Bernard Getz in NYC when he shot someone on the subway with a BP Pistol and they couldn't get him for a Concealed Weapon because BPs are exempt. Now that may have changed in some areas of the country.

 

[John Taylor]

Illinois is one of those states that says if it shoots, it's a firearm. With a few exceptions it says " Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
(1) BB guns with a bore under .180" under 700 fps
(2) a signal gun
(3) A rivet or nail gun
(4) an antique firearm ( other than a machine gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the department of state police finds by reason of the date of it's manufacture, value, design and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and not likely to be used as a weapon."
Taken right out of the State laws book from department of justice, 25 th edition. I did edit some of the words to shorten it up some. Looks like if you want to shoot it then it is a firearm.

 

[khwils]

Sproogle, Where in/about Chicago do you live? That still covers a large area. I live just south of Chicago in Kankakee. We have a state sanctioned range just west of town, there is a membership fee to join but it is a pretty nice range. Licenses in Illinois!! I don't think you need a FOID card for BP. That being said I wouldn't have anything in Illinois without a FOID. I wouldn't want a LEO or judge make the decision for me. The cards are a pain but they are only $5 for 5 years - don't get caught without one. I believe the charges are rather expensive especially after lawyer fees. Paul on this forum could probably expand on that as he's a lawyer in Champaign I believe. Also since you are close to Chicago you need to watch your local laws. I know handguns are illegal in Chicago and maybe all of Cook County. Mayor Daley wants to ban every gun he can in the whole state! He has Governor Go-blow-me-gripe - er - I mean Blagoavich in his hip pocket. I think he is really Mayor/gov Daley. They tried to pass a law last term to ban any 50 cal and over gun. They tried to masquerade it by saying they were trying to ban the .50 BMG because it could shoot down planes. Problem is they would of been successful in banning all .50 cal and over guns including all blackpowder guns and any shotgun over .50 cal. - nice try but no dice! Our fine Gov also tried to raise our FOID fees from $5 to $500! He also laid off a lot of people affecting the FOID application, it made for long waiting periods but I believe that has been resolved. My personal conspiracy theory believes he did the delay on purpose trying to discourage people or get them in trouble with expired cards. I'll get off my soapbox. I like where I live but I don't agree with all of our laws. Kurt/IL

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Just as a point of information, Bernie Getz didn't use a blackpowder revolver. The jury that tried him, acquitted him of murder because they believed he acted in self defense. The Manhattan DA, Robert Morganthau thereafter indicted him on a weapons charge. NYC has had the Sullivan law for the past century, which prohibits individuals from carrying a concealed weapon. (Sullivan was an Italian gangster who assumed an Irish name, because you couldn't get far in the "mob" in those day unless you had an Irish name. The other gangesters just wouldn't "trust" you. Sullivan was well connected and he got his cronies on the city council to pass an ordinance against private carry, since he wanted his hoods to be the only ones packing heat.)

Getz served over a year in the joint for his weapons violation. Getting a jury to acquit is meaningless, if the DA can nab you with other existing laws.

All gun control shares the common characteristic of political clout. Most of the concealed carry laws in the south go back to Jim Crow, and most of the northern laws go back to social economics. Either way it's a bunch of crooked politicians jerrymandering your security for their political agenda.

I grew up in Vermont, which as far as I know is still the only state that doesn't require handgun licensing. Handgun crime is negligible. It's a very 2nd amendment friendly state despite having a super liberal government and identity.

 

[Tracy]

In Illinois you do need a foid card for muzzleloaders.

 

Iron Jim...you're worng about Vermont being the only state that doesn't require licensing handguns. I can say for a fact that Wyoming doesn't and my home state of Missouri doesn't require actual licensing. I know there are many others but won't list them because things may have changed in the last few years. But in the states I'm thinking of, I doubt it.

Vic

 

[Homesteader]

Kinda amazing, when you think about it. Can you imagine what your Granddaddies would've said if ANY state had ANY laws regarding what you could or could not carry to defend yourself? (Then again, maybe my Grandpa would've been a lot older than yours.)

As Webster wrote: "... Through silent and gradual encroachments..."

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Well, I'm glad to be wrong. In the east I can't think of another state besides Vermont that doesn't requiring licensing. I hold permits in a couple of states. In New York you have to acquire a license, and a permit for each handgun. I have an unrestricted permit, but NYC doesn't recognize a New York State permit, thus I can't carry in the city. Each time I want to purchase a handgun, I have to file an amendment to my application to have the pistol added. This insures that every handgun is registered. Great, eh.

In Pennsylvania, you must have a license to carry, and the license needs to be renewed every 5 years.

I'm truly glad that at least some states don't subject there citizens to this sort of nonsense. It's a lot of political nonsense that does nothing to insure the safety of the citizenry, but gun control has always been about political control rather than safety anyway.

 

[JIMinPHX]

As far as the Fed's are concerned, an old style cap & ball revolver is an antique, not a firearm, even if it is a modern reproduction of an old style gun. The states' positions on that subject vary widely. Chicago is an especially bad example of over zealous lawmaking. Comrade Daily's little fiefdom is a place that I avoid whenever possible. For more on the laws in that area, I would look here -
[url] http://www.packing.org/state/illinois[/url]/