Kasenit for hardening frizzen

[ky_man]

OK, so I tried to re-harden my old frizzen (would not spark at all, flint left huge gouges in it) using Kasenit. No luck. Can anyone tell me where I went wrong? Here's what I did:

1. Ground the surface of the old frizzen until it was reasonably smooth
2. Sandpapered the frizzen to 400 grit smooth
3. Prepared for the process: bucket of cold water (~3 gal.), 2 propane torches, piece of coathanger, Kasenit compound, welder's gloves
4. I suspended the frizzen with the coathanger 6-8 in. over the bucket of water, and used the torches to heat the frizzen face "bright cherry red" Took 6-7 minutes.
5. Immediately put the frizzen face in the Kasenit, it sizzled a bit. Re-heated
6. Re-dipped the frizzen in Kasenit, reheated
5. The frizzen was bright cherry red when I quenched it by cutting the coathanger and letting it drop. The frizzen made a "crack" as it hit the water.

When I pulled it out, it had interesting swirl patterns on the frizzen face. The rest of it was grey (initially it was silver) I put it in my lock, and fired - no sparks. I sanded the face slightly, and still nothing. The frizzen appears to be too hard? I can cut it with my file. Of course, I can cut the frizzen I have that does spark with my file, so what gives? I don't understand what I did wrong - please help with this! The flint will scrape the face, and leave silvery traces, but they are not deep at all, perhaps it's too hard? Can I sand it some more, or will I remove the case layer (if any)?


I have heard that a magnet can be used in this process, does the stell become non-magnetic at some point?

 

[rice1817]

I watched Phil Cravener reharden one of mine. He played the flame from two torches on the back of the frizzen with the kasenite piled on the top. When the kasenite melted, it was a sign that the frizzen was hot enough. He quenched in oil instead of water. Repeated the process, and then emery clothed the frizzen clean of the scale. Sparked like a champ after that.

I have also had success by taking a sparkless frizzen, putting it in with sugar and leather scraps in a steel soup can, pinching the top closed, and putting it in the fire place for an hour with a good bed of coals going. Pulled it out, tossed it into a bucket of water, and that worked too.

 

[paulvallandigham]

First heat the frizzen up in the kasenit to cherry red, and leave it at heat for at least 30 minutes. That will allow the carbon to enter the surface of the steel better. Cooking it in Kasenit for even an hour is not too long. Then quench not in water, but in oil. Swirl it in the oil so you don't get cracks. I am surprised that you have not cracked the frizzen someplace already doing it in water. If you can warm the oil by putting the oil bath inside a container with hot water, all the better.

Then, polish the frizzen to remove the scale oxides from it, and you can see the " white " metal. Then, put the frizzen on a cookie sheet in your oven and let it cook for an hour at 350 degrees. Use an oven thermometer to check the temperature. It can be higher and work, but lower than 350 and you will not draw the temper. The frizzen should reach a yellow straw color during the tempering process.

Let the frizzen cool slowly by simply turning off the oven and letting it cool to room temperature slowly. You can repeat the tempering process at least three times without ill effects to the steel. The repetition sometimes does a better job of tempering the steel than just doing it one time. If you ping the frizzen after its hardened, it will have a high pitched ring to it. After tempering, the ring will drop down a half note or more. Tempering is done to releive stress caused by the hardening and quenching process. If you only harden the frizzen, it is brittle, and it may be too hard to allow your flint to cut much, if any sparks.

To harden the frizzen in the kasenit, you have to heat the frizzen up with a torch, or two, in a small container that holds the frizzen and kasenit deep enough to cover the frizzen. Its obviously more important to harden the vertical portion of the frizzen than the bottom, so if you have to cheat a little, put the frizzen face down and cover the top part of the frizzen totally with the kasenit compound. Then heat the mix cherry red.

You ask about magnetism. When the frizzen is red hot, you should not be able to attract it with a magnet. If the magnet sticks, you need to heat the frizzen even hotter to harden. Only at this temperature will steel lose its attraction to magnets. Once it cools it will again be attracted to magnets. At temperature, the molecules are fluid in the steel, and the electrons from the magnet cannot pull the steel to it. Sword makers in Japan, hundreds of years ago, aligned their quenching baths so that the blades would be in line with the Earth's North and South poles when they were quenched. It was believed then, and some still believe, that this aids in aligning the grain or molecular structure of the blade magnetically, so that the blade has more flxibility. In Europe, a Lodestone( magnet) was often passed over the heated blade to align the molecules just before quenching. With today's alloys, much of the qualities of these old layered steels is now produced with changes in the chemical composition of the alloy, so that aligning the blade with the poles seems unnecessary. However, when one of the master blade makers makes a blade out of the same materials as were used in Japan 500 years ago, it is likely that he will also quench the blade aligned with the poles. The blades do seem to work better doing this.

When you have tempered the frizzen, polish the rest of the scale off, oil the pivot hole, and put it back in the lock. It will take several strikes before the flint begins to cut the surface to throw lots of sparks. 5-10 should be the most needed. Then you should get a shower of sparks.Try it this way and let me know.

paul

 

If all else fails. get a piece of banding steel from the lumber yard ,they throw it away. cut and bend a piece to fit the face of the frizzen, then use kasinite on it . Heat to sour cherry red pile on kasenit and let it melt at cherry red,then quench in warm water. This you e pox e to the frizzen face. sparks like mad and hangs on forever. Mine has been on for at least twelve years. The banding steel hardens all the way through. Bob

 

[TANSTAAFL]

A smooth and slick frizzen face is not necessarily a good thing.

Not much I can add to what paulvallandigham & La Longue Carabine have stated.

One thing I do when using Kasinit, is to pre-treat the steel with their Keeperyte anti-oxidation compound, it works up to 1650 degrees F.

 

[ky_man]

I have seen smooth frizzens and rough ones with cross-hatching. It would seem that rogh ones would yield more spark than smooth, but be harder on the flint? Thanks for your input, everyone.

 

[ky_man]

Hallelujiah I have spark! I followed Paul's instructions above, and the thing sparks like mad on my bench with no tempering. I think I'll draw it anyways just to be safe, then I'll report back. Here's how I set it up (I need to draw an illustration)
1. I used two coathangers to suspend the frizzen, one through the eye, the other under the top of the frizzen (frizzen face up) This way, the frizzen could swing freely if I moved the rod under the tip of the frizzen.
2. I heated the frizzen to cherry red with 2 propane torches at once. The frizzen became less magentic (couldn't tell if it lost it completely, there was some pull)
3. Applied Kasenit to the striking surface, it began to bubble (still heating from below. After ~10 min. I retreated it.
4. This time, I moved one torch from underneath to heating the Kasenit itself. It took on the meanest, most evil look, red an bubbly. Never splattered, even though it looked like lava.
5. Lastly, I removed the rod under the frizzen tip, allowing the frizzen to swing down and hang at an angle. The torch flame went from frizzen tip on up to the flash pan. The other torch heating the back.
6. I quickly grabbed the frizzen with my pliers and chucked it in a can of new 10W40. It 'wooshed' (as compared to a 'crack' with water)
7. Removed scale with an emery cloth
8. Tested for spark. Bingo! Lots of white sizzlers.
9. Drew at 350 F for 1 hour

 

[paulvallandigham]

Congrats. Its always a proud moment when you overcome a frustration with gun parts through a little knowledge and a lot of home sweat. Do draw that frizzen back as you are indicating. If it hasn't gone into the oven yet, take a hard steel tool, like the shank on a screwdriver, and just tap that frizzen as it swings from that coat hanger. Listen to the pitch of the sound the frizzen makes. After it comes out of the oven, " Ping" or tap it again, and listen to the new sound. It should be a half note lower at least.

If that frizzen was made from a softer, cold roll steel, the kasenit process will only give your 100-200 strikes before you cut through it and are back into that soft steel. You will have to regrind or polish that frizzen surface again, and redo the hardening using Kasenit. The next time, leave the heat on longer so that the carbon from the Kasenit penetrates further. Your description of the molten texture of the stuff at heat is accurate. If a magnet was still being drawn to the frizzen, or vice versa, just raise the heat until the magnet does not pull the frizzen to it.

Glad we could all help. paul